Goliath Grouper Dust Ups and the Odd Swallowed Diver?

[RickI]

I just came across the clip of a guy shooting on scuba off Jupiter. The jewfish tried a fin but opted to go for the guys amber jack instead. There was a shark in the background but it seems the grouper was the fish to keep an eye on.

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Some of the"best" stories are old stories and largely unverifiable. Still, an 8 ft. goliath looks like it could inhale a good sized object and they are as strong as a bull. Most of these encounters involve smaller fish, so who knows?

Here are a couple of interesting stories out of the Keys from: When jewfish attack (slow news day, fish bites man)

"I spearfished jewfish in the Florida Keys commercially for a living in the 1970's and 1980's. When a 600 pounder makes that booming noise with his gills and looks you in the eye like you are prey, you know it's time to bangstick him or get back to the boat. A friend of mine diving with me in 1981 was sucked halfway into a jewfish mouth, the only part visible of his body was his torso from the chest up. We bangsticked that fish in the head with a .38 round and he spit my friend out, minus flippers and wetsuit. "


[vimeo]7780326[/vimeo]
https://vimeo.com/7780326


I had that sort of audible swim bladder noise accompanied by head shaking a couple of times scooter free diving on the Castor in 110 ft. of water off Boynton Beach a few years back. There were over a dozen good sized grouper on the wreck. I was thinking it wouldn't be good to get inhaled on a breath hold dive at that depth. You can see some of this in the early GoPro video clip above.


Another story at the above link involved a guy who had just shot two mangrove snapper in about 30 ft. of water off Bay Point in the lower Keys. A rough 100 pound, 4 ft. long goliath grouper came up within 3 to 4 ft. of him and was popping its swim bladder. The next thing the diver knew he was seeing blood, his blood, in the water among a bunch of bubbles. The grouper had ripped his mask off and yanked his regulator out trying to swallow his face. He thought if it has been 200 or 300 pounds it might have done some serious damage, like taking him out. The state of Florida banned shooting jewfish or goliath grouper in 1990 and it looks like populations have been rebounding since.

More stories and some thoughts on where this might be going and why at:
Goliath Grouper Stories Or Divers Go Down Better With ? - FKA Kiteboarding Forums

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[danvolker]

If we were spearfishing 300 years ago, there would have been exponentially more big barracudas, big and little sharks, big jewfish, big cubera snappers---in general, just a huge number of predators that would be following us on our attempt to spearfish, and they would be stealing our speared fish. So fast forward to an ocean that has been raped and pillaged by commercial netting, long lining, and general overfishing. Where reefs that had thousands of Cuda's on them back in the 80's have a few dozen now, almost no sharks can be seen on normal dives, and over reefs, you might see one or two goliaths on a dive.....and now we have spear fisherman whining that the jewfish are too aggressive, and this fish stealing needs to stop--that we need to eradicate this menace to spearfishing.

Frank Hammett, once labeled the "Butcher of Palm Beach" in Skin Diver Magazine back in the early 80's, was fun to spearfish with back in the day, and had some great sayings that tie in to this defective mindset of today.....At least when Frank said these, it was borne of the education at the time, when it was being taught to school kids that the Ocean was an INEXHAUSTIBLE SOURCE OF FOOD AND MARINE LIFE....

One of Frank's sayings...he once joked with Pat Frain on one of our spearfishing dives, on the SI ( Pat was maker of Ultimate Spearguns) ...."Pat..the Ocean is a Very Dangerous Place!...that's why you have to shoot everything you see down there!!!!"

The behaviors of the old timers, led to the practical elimination of most predators that belong in the ocean today. Even a baby wreck like the Mispah, used to have many hundreds of barracuda sitting on top of it, prior to the commercial guys harvesting them for cat food. And now the whiners come in, and say the Jewfish need to be harvested, so that the spear fisherman have a chance to get a fish...

The ocean has a critically important ecology for the planet. It is foolish to try to wipe out the Jewfish, so that the spear fisherman can be happy on some favorite shipwrecks or reefs. In the 70's and before, the attempts to shoot a grouper or a snapper in the same Palm Beach reefs, would have been met with a hundred barracuda trying to be first for the easy meal.....meaning if you wanted to be successful in spearfishing, you moved to a reef or structure that did not have hundreds of CUDA on the structure, ready to steal your shot.....Same with the jewfish.

Recent Science reports on the Jewfish, show that mercury and other toxic compound levels to be so high, that they could NOT be sold for human consumption, meaning that any harvesting is ONLY an action meant to eradicate a species that the spear fisherman or fisherman are competing with......And this is a species that has a beneficial relationship with the ecosystem, as it is part of the natural balance.

Also...keep in mind that artificial wrecks that fisherman or spear fisherman like, are artificial fish attractants----and the big sharks and jewfish KNOW that these structures are going to pull in large volumes of their prey.....and they will get easy meals there..... And this means that unless you want to whack the ecosystem, the artificial wrecks are going to be homes to sharks and jewfish, that WILL see spearfish targets or fisherman catches, as easy meals..... The smart spear fisherman or fisherman, will move to reefs well away from the artificial fish attractant wrecks--that have also pulled most of the jewfish and sharks from the area that are looking for an easy meal....Just a 1/4 mile away, on a nice reef--you could be very jewfish-Free for hours on end.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Glad you found your gun, but. . . . what Dan said above. Dan, that's probably the best summary I have ever read on human obliviousness and greed and the lessons to be learned (or not, evidently). However, you see the same thing going on with the wolves out west--exterminated so that weekend "sportsmen" have an easier shot at an elk (who overbreed without natural predation).

Just curious, why are people spearing ambers? They are lousy eating from the few times I tried them compared to snapper or grouper of mahi. When I worked charter fishing boats in the 80s they were strictly catch and release for sport unless someone wanted a mount.

Dan, is that where all the barracudas have gone? I have wondered for a long time why I do not see so many. Always used to like seeing them on my dives. Exterminate them for cat food? Unbelievable.

 

[RickI]

I quit spearfishing at 16, in 1973, over concerns it was unsustainable off much of SE Florida as far back that time. I was convinced of this by the reduced abundance and size of grouper and snapper on the reefs among other factors. Also, you could see some monster fish in protected John Pennekamp State Park in those days before scumbag poachers cleaned them out in later years. Also, I visited a hard to find low profile reef with shoals of Nassau and tons of big Hogs in 170 ft. off Ft. Lauderdale where few divers went in those early days. They were indifferent to divers given the lack of exposure and shooting. Finally, there used to be dozens of full time commercial spearfishermen working the waters off Broward and Dade Counties in the 1960's. In the early 1970's, I had trouble identifying one person who did it full time in that area.

It is a good thing I was wrong as large size classes are still easy to come by and stocks plentiful all these decades later. No, not even close, things seem to be going in the opposite direction off this section of coast.

 

[danvolker]

[video=youtube_share;xv1hPqmWAfY]http://youtu.be/xv1hPqmWAfY[/video]

Typical Jewfish encounter....this was yesterday off Boynton.

---------- Post added July 28th, 2014 at 02:23 PM ----------

Glad you found your gun, but. . . . what Dan said above. Dan, that's probably the best summary I have ever read on human obliviousness and greed and the lessons to be learned (or not, evidently). However, you see the same thing going on with the wolves out west--exterminated so that weekend "sportsmen" have an easier shot at an elk (who overbreed without natural predation).

Just curious, why are people spearing ambers? They are lousy eating from the few times I tried them compared to snapper or grouper of mahi. When I worked charter fishing boats in the 80s they were strictly catch and release for sport unless someone wanted a mount.

Dan, is that where all the barracudas have gone? I have wondered for a long time why I do not see so many. Always used to like seeing them on my dives. Exterminate them for cat food? Unbelievable.

Hi Guy,
I don't have a scientific report that confirms that the easy money of selling cuda for catfood--and easy shooting, led to the cudas being wiped out....but I remember in the late 80's that a huge bunch or the local spearfisherman were making money on the side by whacking cudas....even some of the freedivers were whacking them off of the South Jetty at the Palm Beach inlet ( and they admitted they were selling them for catfood)....Prior to this, the cudas were in enormous schools...and then in a few short years, they were absent....
Similar with the Aberjacks that used to be in a thick wall on top of each of the wrecks...it used to be a fantastic site to drop on the Hydroatlantic, or the RB Johnson, and see a near infinate wall of Amberjacks blocking out any sign of the wreck below it....on the RB, you intersect the top of this Amberjack layer at about 170 feet or so, and then they would be so thick you would have a hard time seeing your buddies...then you would drop out the bottom at around 210 feet, and the ship would be cloaked in this enormous cloud.
I believe fisherman found out about this, and came through with nets and raped the area repeatedly untill today their is no amberjack wall to speak of.
And few cudas...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Glad you found your gun, but. . . . what Dan said above. Dan, that's probably the best summary I have ever read on human obliviousness and greed and the lessons to be learned (or not, evidently). However, you see the same thing going on with the wolves out west--exterminated so that weekend "sportsmen" have an easier shot at an elk (who overbreed without natural predation).

Just curious, why are people spearing ambers? They are lousy eating from the few times I tried them compared to snapper or grouper of mahi. When I worked charter fishing boats in the 80s they were strictly catch and release for sport unless someone wanted a mount.

Dan, is that where all the barracudas have gone? I have wondered for a long time why I do not see so many. Always used to like seeing them on my dives. Exterminate them for cat food? Unbelievable.

AJ's are good food fish. I ate some tonight.

 

[danvolker]

Another Volkerism... as far as I know cuda were never sold for cat food. They were used for human consumption.

So the guys that told me this were lying, and you--Dumpster diver, would "know" if groups of divers in the 90's were shooting cuda for cat food? So you were plugged in to all the avenues that fisherman would use to sell fish--legally or not?

Do you know who or where Frank Hammett used to sell Jewfish to, practically every day he went out with his boat from the 70's to when it became illegal? This was often two or more per day, many days in a week. Frank considered this an essential revenue source. If you do not know who he sold to, does this mean it did not happen?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

We sold many hundreds of lbs of cuda. they were all sold for human consumption..

 

[danvolker]

We sold many hundreds of lbs of cuda. they were all sold for human consumption..

So because you were able to find people willing to eat cuda, that is your reason for thinking that no one would sell them for cat food?
The fact is, most people that like sea food, are aware of the high incidence of ciguatera with Cudas.....Cats are not so squeamish about this
Cat food is easy to sell....hence the market was big......
How you could find a market in South Florida for people eating barracuda is troubling to me....Tell me you would NOT do this today, if the cuda were still plentiful ?

P.S..
From "Florida Health, Palm Beach County" http://www.pbchd.com/prevention_pointers/prevention_pointers_holy-mackerel-it-is-ciguatera.html
....."A safe approach to avoid ciguatera fish poisoning would be to avoid consumption oflarge predatory reef fish. This includes snapper, grouper, amberjack or mackerel greater than 5 pounds. Consumption of all barracuda, no matter the size, should be avoided.Yellowtail snapper and dolphin (mahi-mahi) are safe fish to eat at any size in the South Florida and Caribbean areas."

 

[danvolker]

There are some people that might do better with pictures.....