Fit problem or application issue with Force Fins?

[swack]

For a long time I have wanted to try Force Fins. On my last dive trip I finally got that opportunity, borrowing a pair from another diver who was anxious to try my Atomic split fins. We used each others fins for 4 days, 2 dives each day. Not surprisingly, I experienced some cramping on the first couple of dives but that subsided for the rest of the time. The bigger problem I had was blisters that formed on the top of each foot. I really liked the fins and want to get a pair for myself but am concerned about the blistering. I'm wondering if this is a fit issue or just a matter of getting used to a different type of fin from my Atomics that I've used for 10+ years.

My foot size is 12 medium. I wear a hard soled 5 mm boot. I think my instep would be described as high but I'm not really sure what that means. I only comment on the instep because the sizing chart says to go up a size for a high instep and I think I might have one, because the blister formed at the bone on the top of my foot. The force fins that I used were XXL. I don't know if they were the original or the Pro version but I suspect they were originals. My boot extends about 1" to 1-1/2" out the back of the fin at the bottom of the boot. The 1/2" difference is due to the fact that the boot sole curves from the bottom up the back of the boot and that curved area makes it hard to get an exact measurement.

I have been very happy with my split fins in terms of their performance underwater, with the exception of their length. The Force Fins will solve that problem, plus they are smaller and lighter for packing, thus my reason for considering a switch. Although I have 300+ dives in the past 10 years, I am a basic recreational diver with no interest in cave or wreck diving. I do dive currents a lot, especially Cozumel. I also carry a camera with me but am not a techno geek. I do it for the fun of reliving the dives.

So...any ideas on what is causing the blistering? Is the XXL too small, such that I should go to an XXXL? Is it a muscle memory issue where I just need for my kicking style to adjust to the different type of fin? Any other possibilities that I am not considering?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Bob Evans]

Dear Swack, Well, first of all thank you for taking time to test a pair of Force Fin Pro's. . Sound's like you have a high instep, and maybe a little bony knot on it as well. Maybe a low profile sole bootie, so you can fit in extra padding on the top with a comfort instep. An alternative, might be the Adjustable foot pocket Force Fin. Its designed to free up the pressure points on the top of narrow feet with high insteps.

Force Fin Adjustable Force Fins

Hope this helps.

 

[sibermike7]

My foot size is 12 medium. I wear a hard soled 5 mm boot. I think my instep would be described as high but I'm not really sure what that means.

I too have a high instep; so high that the Marines about didn't let me join until some crusty gunny said, "Don't worry, hee, hee, hee, we'll flatten them out." but I digress.

Anyway, I got away from the hard sole and went with the softer bootie and I also started wearing a "rash guard" sock and it solved my problem.
A few years later, I lost my expensive socks and just used a pair of thin nylon dress socks, and they don't look as cool, but work just as well!

The fins that Bob recommended should be SOOOO awesome for you. The flexible top portion should make your feet feel like they are in heaven.
Awesome choice Bob.

 

[swack]

Thanks for the answers, they're very helpful.

Sibermike - always great to get feedback from an actual user with similar experiences. I do own a pair of the socks, primarily because the boots are easier to take off when wearing the socks.

Bob - going to Cozumel in mid-November and borrowing a pair of your fins from a friend who is not going on the trip. I like your suggestion about the adjustable pocket and that is the route I intend to go, but I want to try them again before I make that investment. The pair I'm borrowing is the standard fin, not the adjustable pocket, but I can add some extra padding and hopefully avoid the blistering. It's been a while since I originally tried them and want to give them another run underwater. If all goes well, I'll be ordering a pair of the full pockets after I get back.

 

[Bob Evans]

Sounds good Swack, keep us posted. Best, Bob

 

[skullmancan]

to me it sounds like you had the fins to lose and they had room to move around causing the blisters

 

[danvolker]

I would also add to this concept of the "preferred use of the thin soled bootie"....there is only one reason I can think of to use a pair of the thick soled booties--this would be for walking over rocks, being much more important to a diver, than swimming efficiently with fins on......If your only walking is on lawn or dirt, or the boat deck...no nasty rocks....,then your objective with the bootie should be in gaining the BEST "structural interface" to convey the power from your legs and ankles, to your fins....a very thin soled bootie has the leverage much better for you to use much more of your power, with none wasted on instability and a poor angle to apply power to....a great example of this issue is the same desire in racing cyclists ( think Tour de France)....A racing cyclist pulls back at the bottom of the pedal stroke like they are trying to scrape **** off the bottom of a shoe, and at the top they are doing essentially a quadricep extension like at the gym...the muscles and forces used, are almost identical to those used in fin swimming.
Cyclists will pay big money, to get carbon fiber soled bike shoes that have nearly paper thin soles, so that they can get the best power transfer to the pedals--which is like our transfer to the fins...Put a cyclist in some stupid huge soled shoes and inch thick or more, and there would be a horiffic loss of power and speed on the bike.

As divers, we want to expend the least energy possible..and even if your desire is to go very slow, if the fin power transmission is near optimal, you might keep your heart rate at just about your resting HR level, rather than 20 or 30 beats above this, because of the inefficiency of the big thick soled booties.

The thin soled booties tend to cost less than the fat soles, and they are better for underwater propulsion.

Better still, would be a pair of Bike shoes with orthotics in them ( since any time you want to "crank down" on your foot to get good power transfer in a shoe, ski boot, rollerblade or dive bootie/fin interface, you need to have no slipage....with most fins this means cranking down the fin onto the foot, and this means crushing the arch of the foot--which is foolish---and why you need an arch support unless you have feet as flat as a board.
Force fins are unique in this area, as they do not need to be cranked down ultra tight, to get good power transfer....Bob had a brilliant deviation from what all other fin creators went with, and it is Force fins alone that don't need to be cranked tight like a ski boot.....On the other hand....comfortable bike shoes, if water proof, would still provide a thin and stiff sole, better for power transfer, even with the force fins.

 

[danvolker]

These are what I use currently with either my dive R freedive fins ( open heel Riffe Silent Hunter foot pockets) or with my very awesome Extra Force Fins ( which I use for penetration diving)
NRS Kicker Wetshoe - Closeout at nrs.com


Even I don't bother with the cycling shoes( those who know me know that I take propulsion and optimal fins very seriously....comes from being a cyclist also, I think )

**Note*** I cut off the strap ontop of the instep.....I have a very high instep, and not only have no use for this, it interferes with the inside top of the fin....easy to cut off.
These have a thin sole....but, as they are Kayak shoes, they can handle some hiking over rocks, as any whitewater paddler knows, it's always possible you will end up hiking along the side of a river without a boat or paddle

 

[sibermike7]

Thanks for the answers, they're very helpful.

You are very welcome.

Let me just add this from personal experience.
I had quit diving in 2003 because of my knees. I just could NOT kick the "boards" attached to my feet anymore. I could literally feel the banging of the knee joints during the kick cycles.

My oldest son wanted to be certified and I wanted to be there for his check out dives. I thought that I would just grit my teeth and do these last few before "hanging up my spurs". I had already sold most of my gear. I was down to just my prescription mask.

His instructor was a shop owner in Oceanside, CA. We had been in the USMC at the same time and he still worked with the military in diving, so he was familiar with ForceFins since that was what Force Recon was using. He was also a big fan.

When I explained my situation (maybe "lamented" would be more accurate) he suggest I use the fins that he used, ForceFin Pros.
I tried them and was amazed at how they felt. They felt so "free" that I honestly didn't think that I would get much propulsion out of them.

I found some used on eBay for $90. I remember thinking, "$90 for USED fins~! This is CRAZY!!!!! But, it IS my son's check out dives. I suppose I can re-sell them afterwards"

Suffice it to say, I STILL have those fins and, let's see, there are 5 other pairs to go along with those!
One son has tan deltas, another the foils, another uses Pros, etc. I have Pros and Extras. We are a Force Fin Family and now how "acquired" a lot of gear since SCUBA has become a MAJOR part of our lives.

I now teach and guide here in Estonia. Something I would have missed out on if Force Fins hadn't given me back SCUBA.

Thanks Bob! Thanks Blair! Love you guys!