SAC calculation

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thethumper

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Ok..... I'm gonna go out on a limb here & ask... I have been diving for about 12 years & still dive tables (no computer). How do you calculate SAC? I know it's probably a rudimentary skill, however, it's one I don't posses. I dive overhead using the rule of 3rds. When I hit 1/3, it's time to turn back.

Feeling less than adequate.;-0
 
thethumper once bubbled...
Ok..... I'm gonna go out on a limb here & ask... I have been diving for about 12 years & still dive tables (no computer). How do you calculate SAC? I know it's probably a rudimentary skill, however, it's one I don't posses. I dive overhead using the rule of 3rds. When I hit 1/3, it's time to turn back.

Feeling less than adequate.;-0
Takes a lot to make an admission like that... and so I'm not going to be unkind.

SAC is your surface air consumption... the amount of air you use at 1 ATA (atmosphere absolute.) With that figured in cf per minute for both working and resting rates you will be able to do gas planning... converting back to psi for use during the dive itself with whatever size cylinder you are using.

Basically you need to keep track of the gas you use over a period of time at a specific depth while at rest and while swimming. I would advise you to take some classes but in the mean time you can burn a few tanks and get a good idea of your SAC rates.

Swim for 20 minutes at a depth of 34ffw and note how much gas you have used. You will need to figure your cylinders PSI/cf ratio... if for instance you are using double LP104s then you can figure that every 100psi represents 8cf. If you need help with this PM me.

Take the cf used and divide it by 2 since you were at 2ATA and then divide that number by 20 since you were there for 20 minutes.

This number would be your working SAC. Do the same just floating around for 20 minutes at 34ffw and you can calculate your resting SAC (used for figuring deco gas requirements.)

How you use this SAC figure in gas management is another lesson.

Now that I have attempted to answer your question... let me be frank... you really shouldn't be diving overhead without the proper training. If you do not know how to calculate your SAC then you have not had the proper training. Scuba Board is not a substitute for proper training.

While I admire you (seriously) for being able to make this admission of inadequacy I will not continue to admire you if you persist in the folly of diving overhead without proper training.
 
It's fairly simple.

First calculate how much air you used in the dive, from the ratio of pressure/volume.

vol = ((Start Pressure-End Pressure)/Working Pressure) *Tank Volume

OK so Now you know how much air you used, divide it by the time you dived and you have a consumption rate.

CR = vol/time

You now need to adjust this to take into account the compression of the gas at depth, just divide the number by the number of atmospheres absolute your diving at


ATA = 1 + (average depth/33) -- Assuming ft
or
ATA = 1 + (average depth/10) -- Assuming meters

CR/ATA = SAC

I'm sure someone will correct the blaring error I almost certainly made in that.
 
Just a simple calculation....

put on a tank, go to 33 ft depth (2 atm)

Note your starting pressure (P1)
hang out relaxed for static SAC (like a deco or safety stop), swim around for dynamic SAC

after 10 min, note your ending pressure (P2)

Take P1 and Subtract P2. Gives you the presure that you breathed down. Divide that number by 10 (for 10 minutes) and by 2 for 2 atm and you'll have your sac. (Surface Air Consumption in terms of PSI)

For example, if I dive to 33 feet on my AL 80 with a starting pressure of 3000 and after 10 minutes my pressure is 2376. then I used 3000-2376 = 624 psi over 10 min at two atm. divide by 10 min and two atm and I get about 31 psi per minute that I use on an al 80.

This is good if you never change tanks.

SACCF - Surface Air Consumption - Cubic Feet can be more useful.
take your psi and tank size and figure it out in terms of cubic feet. For example my al 80 really has 77 cf in it at 3000 so

77 SACCF
----------- = -------------
3000 31

SACCF = .79 cubic feet per minute of air I use on the surface.

The way I can use this is to calculate the amt of air I use at depth

For example, to spend 20 min at 100 ft (5 atm)

air consumption = SACCF * min * atm
= .79 *20 *5
= 80 cubic feet of air

So to follow rule of thirds I'll need 80 * 3 cf of air - so the double 120s are going to be needed!


Hope that this helps ( I just finished the course !)
 
thethumper once bubbled...
guys..... And UP, why wasn't this tought in PADI Cavern Class? Was I given "Improper" training? Maybe I should have gone w/NACD after all.

It is taught in Padi AOW which is comes before Cavern Class
 
thethumper once bubbled...
Maybe I should have gone w/NACD after all.
...you need to git yourself into a GUE class. SAC is fundamentals stuff. You're only 90 miles from High Springs!


btw... did you take care of that little web-page thingy we talked about?
 
Surface Air Consumption Rate

The compressibility of gasses is also an important consideration for divers due to its affect on how long a diver can stay underwater. Scuba regulators are designed to deliver air to a diver at the same pressure as the surrounding water pressure, at ambient pressure. That means that when a diver fills his lungs at a depth of 33 feet, he is taking in the equivalent amount of air as two breaths at the surface. Obviously then, a tank will only last half as long at 33 feet as it would at the surface. A tank that would last 1 hour at the surface would only last 1/3 as long, or 20 minutes, at a depth of 66 feet, etc.

It can be beneficial to be able to estimate how long a scuba tank might last at a given depth when dive planning. To determine this, it is first necessary to determine a divers Surface Air Consumption (SAC) rate. For example, if you are diving at 33 feet, and use 500 lbs of air in 10 minutes, it is easy to determine that you are using 50 lbs per minute. This is only true for this depth however. How much air would you use at 66 feet, or 99 feet?

The first thing we must do is calculate SAC rate. In the preceding example, a diver using 50 pounds per minute at a depth, would use 25 pounds per minute at the surface. His surface air consumption rate is 25 pounds per minute. With our SAC number of 25, it is easy to calculate our consumption rate for depths of 33, 66, 99 feet etc. We know we are under 3 times the pressure at 66 feet, so we would use 3 times as much air, or 75 pounds per minute at this depth.

The process becomes slightly more complex if depth consumption rate (DCR) is determined at a depth that is not in even atmospheres. (Not at 33, 66, 99 feet etc.) For this situation we use a formula that is simply an adaptation of Boyle's Law to determine our SAC rate:

SAC Rate = (DCR x 33) / (Depth + 33)

Let's look at an example. Suppose you did a 50 foot dive for 25 minutes and used 1700 pounds of air. This would mean our DCR is 1700/25 or 68 pounds per minute. Using this in our formula we get:

SAC Rate = (68 x 33) / (50+33)

or: SAC Rate = 2244/83 or about 27 pounds per minute.

We can then turn the equation around to determine our DCR for any depth.

DCR = SAC Rate x (Depth + 33)/33

Let's assume our SAC Rate is 25 and we want to know how fast will we use 2000 pounds of air at a depth of 75 feet.

Dropping our numbers into the equation we get: DCR = 25 x (75 + 33)/33 or DCR = 25 x 108/33 or DCR = 81.81

This means at a depth of 75 feet, we will use 81.81 pounds of air per minute. Dividing this into the 2000 pounds, we see this amount of air would last 24.4 minutes.

It is important to note that SAC Rate takes into account the assumption that you are exerting the same amount of energy at any given depth, and you are using the same size tank as you used when calculating your DCR.

For example, under strenuous diving conditions, you can consume air 4 times faster than when sitting still taking pictures. Also it is obvious that a 50 cubic foot tank would not last as long as an 80 cubic foot tank, even if they were both filled to the same pressure.
 
in AOW. I went through PADI AOW & I wasn't tought SAC. Had I been I wouldn't be asking this question now.

UP.... GUE won't have anything to do w/me.... I'm shunned 'cause I smoke. The messed up thing about it is that who ever I've dove w/in the past 10-12 years, I've always outbreathed. My buddy is an air hog. I like alot of the DIR/GUE ways, but because I smoke, I can't participate in all the Reindeer games. As far as the site thingy, I'm glad you said something, I'll work on that today while I'm @ work.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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