Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 100,000 divers from around the world discussing all things related to Scuba Diving. To gain full access to ScubaBoard you must register for a free account.
As a registered member you will be able to:
Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 3,000,000 posts.
Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
Post your own photos or view from 80,000 user submitted images.
Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
I've been diving for a couple of years now, but always rented equipment and now want to buy my own. I've noticed that finding substantive reviews on equipment is difficult. Usually its just marketing hype or very superficial comments.
I've also noticed that when in-depth equipment reviews that aren't 100% supportive are posted on boards and websites, it seems to generate an attack-dog response from the OEMs. Scott Zeagle is one example, who seems very aggressive in defending his products, regardless of issues. In fairness, his products generally get very good reviews, and I'm personally interested in his Stilletto BC. It isn't my express intent to single him out, but several of his responses to postings on here and other websites have really been nuclear in nature.
I've also determined that there is complete OEM control over product pricing - no seasonal sales, no discounts for large total sales - nothing at all except on discontinued merchandise that's been approved by OEMs, or accessory items such as clothing, luggage, etc. I'm all for capitalism, but that's not capitalism, that's a cartel. The overwhelming majority of current major products (BCs, regs/octos, gauges/computers) are not available anywhere at prices other than what the OEM has set.
Yes, I'm aware of what specialty sports equipment cost - I ski (both kinds), shoot/hunt, golf, have motorcycles (both kinds), camp/hike and own a ton of equipment. But I can always find some kind of deal on what I want if I look hard enough.
The total price control on scuba equipment has kept me from buying my own so far. I'm just wondering what the marketplace perspective is on these issues?
PS - this is my second post on this subject (I posted yesterday) and the first thread never showed up on the board. Hmmm.
The dive gear industry is definately a strange marketplace.
I, like you, am new to this sport and shopping for gear. I also am into many sports and can be classified as a "gearhead" and spend around $10k a year on sporting activities and gear.
So this is what I've found so far...
There are some manufactures (like Aqualung and their associated brands) that mandate the prices that their dealers can sell their products and the discounts they are allowed to give. They also restrict or ban internet sales. I’ve been told that this is in an effort to control the market place and support their local vendors. This may sound noble to some, but on the other hand "through the back door" they provide gear to on-line retailers like LeisurePro who sell it at discounts that your local dive shop can't match due to the manufacturers restrictions. I am a strong believer in the free market so although some of their gear may be top rate I personally avoid purchasing from these manufacturers out of principal.
Most other manufacturers (like Zeagle) support the free market and within reason allow their vendors to sell their gear as they wish. They also support this on-line community which is appreciated.
My advice would be to
Use resources like Scubaboard, on-line product reviews, etc. to figure out the gear that meets your diving requirements.
Check what gear is available locally or at your LDS. You need to have your service done yearly and it's important to be able to get it done close to you.
As for pricing I check on line but always give my LDS the chance to bring their price down. Unless you’re buying gear from a price controlling manufacturer, they will usually work with you.
This whole price thing is not much different than any other industry. Try to buy the microsoft software, same price everywhere, same for Mac, and lots of other stuff. The difference in the scuba market is that it is so small.
Several major manufacturers still are trying to tell the smaller local stores that they do not sell direct to the bigger retailers like Leisure Pro. Fewer and fewer folks believe that.
The larger fully authorized dealers like Scuba.com, Scubatoys.com Diverssupply.com, Diversdirect.com buy at deep discounts and long terms.
The smaller stores buy at a much higher wholesale price and they have a hard time competing, particularly when they have some attitude about the whole online world.
It does seem that more and more of the smaller guys are coming on line and trying to compete in todays market. I wish them all good luck. I hope one of my locals does the same before too long.
FYI, dive shops are negotiable usually. Find the store manager and show him you've got the cash to buy or leave, and like a car salesman, do your research at home, and be ready to buy THAT DAY. Don't go trying to talk them down on a $50 snorkel, but if you've got a big purchase, tell them what it's worth to you and let them see what they can do. Don't buy used until you give your LDS a fair chance to give you a good price.
__________________
-James
"You've got the rest of your life to work through any problem that comes up while diving"
NACD: "Learners Permit"
NAUI: OW
this board is a good source for informations.
for the prices, check the usual online dealer and ask what they can do on the price. crosscheck. Or have a look at ebay. You can usually get a much better deal than when you just go in the local dive center.
Reviews are usually paid, I don't know for scuba, but if I let someone review my products I usually pay something to ensure positiv results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beardown
I've been diving for a couple of years now, but always rented equipment and now want to buy my own. I've noticed that finding substantive reviews on equipment is difficult. Usually its just marketing hype or very superficial comments.
I've also noticed that when in-depth equipment reviews that aren't 100% supportive are posted on boards and websites, it seems to generate an attack-dog response from the OEMs. Scott Zeagle is one example, who seems very aggressive in defending his products, regardless of issues. In fairness, his products generally get very good reviews, and I'm personally interested in his Stilletto BC. It isn't my express intent to single him out, but several of his responses to postings on here and other websites have really been nuclear in nature.
I've also determined that there is complete OEM control over product pricing - no seasonal sales, no discounts for large total sales - nothing at all except on discontinued merchandise that's been approved by OEMs, or accessory items such as clothing, luggage, etc. I'm all for capitalism, but that's not capitalism, that's a cartel. The overwhelming majority of current major products (BCs, regs/octos, gauges/computers) are not available anywhere at prices other than what the OEM has set.
Yes, I'm aware of what specialty sports equipment cost - I ski (both kinds), shoot/hunt, golf, have motorcycles (both kinds), camp/hike and own a ton of equipment. But I can always find some kind of deal on what I want if I look hard enough.
The total price control on scuba equipment has kept me from buying my own so far. I'm just wondering what the marketplace perspective is on these issues?
PS - this is my second post on this subject (I posted yesterday) and the first thread never showed up on the board. Hmmm.
Linear Mode
