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Another thread of a newbie looking for advise on first dive kit. I've been diving for a few years, got around 80 dives in. SSI Advanced Adventurer. Going to drastically increase the amount of diving I do this year, and it's time to kit up (and stop paying rental fees). However I need some advise (particularly since I am now starting to dive in Sydney, and I have very little cold water dive experience). One of my big issues is that I fly to dive a lot, and can't afford two different setups so I'm trying to reconcile the requirements for year-round Sydney diving with flight baggage restrictions for a single kit.
Much thanks in advance for any advise.
I'm buying a combination of stuff online and at my LDS. Unfortunately the dive shop that I go to doesn't actually run any dives from that location, so I can't trial any gear. The only shop I can get to dive with only carries Oceanic, so I have limited access to try stuff out.
Stuff I want to get new:
Regs - already ordered some Apeks from my LDS. 1st and Primary + Occy. May eventually shift to longhose + necklace so might pickup some new hoses. Gonna grab some service kits online as well.
Wetsuit - I can't afford a drysuit, and I haven't trained on them yet, so I'm going with either a Bare 5/4 Velocity Pro Stretch or 5mm Pinnacle Cruiser for summer and a 7mm Cruiser for winter. I've tried them on and I like the fit (they felt a lot more comfortable than the Pinnacle Vulcan semi-dry). Plus, LeisurePro has them at an amazing price. I'm ordering online since they are literally 1/4 the price of the LDS. I already have a Bare 3mm and rashie for travel dives. I use a size Large in Wetsuit.
I'm also gonna grab some Pinnacle or Bare booties/hoodie/gloves in 5mm.
Stuff I'm looking for new or used:
Dive computer - I was just going to go for a bottom timer and depth gauge, but the wrist mount Suunto Vyper is $270 brand new from scubastore, and this seemed like a really good deal no? (I've tried to grab a couple of 2nd hand ones off the forum here but never had any luck). And I can bungie mount the Vyper and use in gauge mode as my diving progresses.
Also thinking about Hollis DG01 Digital Depth Gauge which is on clearance for $150.
Compass - figure an SK6 or SK7 wrist mount with dss boot and bungie but going to buy locally as I need an Aussie zoned one.
Pressure Gauge - figure a 63mm, was looking at the OMS Brass PSI/BAR one for $100 OMS Brass PSI/BAR pressure Gauge, (63mm) ... which is expensive but I've had no luck finding 2nd hand gauges either. If I don't get one with PSI and BAR markings, then I'll grab one that's just BAR.
BCD - I've left this to last because it's giving me the most trouble. I've only had 1 dive in Sydney so far, and everything else has been in tropical areas where I wear a rashie (or very occasionally a 3mm). So I can't figure out what kind of bouyancy I need.
I'm not having luck finding factory specs for wetsuit bouyancy for the suits I'm looking at. I also don't own my own tanks (and won't for quite some time) so it'll depend what the diveshop has as to what I'll be diving. I'm gonna guess single steel 15L at 200bar, bouyancy unknown until I rent it.
The thing is - at least 50% if not more of my diving will be travel. And if I can get my whole kit plus a pair of board shorts into a 10kg carry-on bag, that would be ideal. I think this is doable (airlines here also let you have a pillow or blanket carry-on, which will prob be my rolled up 3mm or rashie and towel).
I've picked up a pair of Force Fin Pros to travel with since they are really light. (I grabbed a pair of Jet Fins for local use).
I'd really prefer not to have to get 2 different BCD setups (home and travel). I really haven't decided what I want to dive yet (normal jacket, back inflate jacket, backplate and wing) so I don't want to invest much money in this yet.
I was looking at a used Mares Dragon Air Trim, but it weighs a ton.
Was also looking at a Zeagle Brigade or Stiletto, but I'm trying to find something used to save some money.
I know nothing about setting up a backplate and wing, and although it is highly recommended all over this forum that they be used - I don't feel comfortable buying a used one since I don't know enough to identify if I am getting a good product for a good price, and if there are any parts to it that are missing or faulty.
From the reading I've done, 45# lift would be too much for single tank (so extra plane weight and water drag for no gain), but 30# would be too little for diving a 7mm wetsuit to depth in cold water, so I should be looking for a setup with around 35# of lift. I imagine the proper answer is two wings (one for travel) but again the money thing - that seems like a plan for further down the road. And I imagine I want an abs or aluminum backplate so I can take it on the plane. But again, I'm not too sure about it all.
Once I get geared up, I'll head out on a dive/float test with each wetsuit using a lds weight belt and figure out how much weight I need to buy. I'm just going to use a standard belt, because I actually don't mind the feel of them.
I like Pinnacle's suits. Plenty of options, and my Cruiser seems well made and keeps me quite warm. Price is pretty good too. Bare's suits are wonderful too, just a bit more pricey.
My Hollis DG02 Computer, which also has a gauge mode, can be had for the same price as the Suunto on LP all day, every day. I love it. Never had any experience with the Suunto computers though, so I'm not sure how they perform. I do know my Hollis computer is really easy to use and is tough as heck.
Sounds like what you need is a good BP/W setup. They offer the best control and the best diving position, as well as being streamlined. They also have the advantage of being easy to pack for travel, since they can be packed smaller than most other BCD types. Plus, they're completely adaptable, so, like you said, you can have multiple wings to do multiple things.
Now, you have to decide steel vs. aluminum. If price and weight restriction is the deciding factor, go with an aluminum plate. An al plate would be lighter too, so taking it on the plane would be easy. Pick steel if you prefer to carry less weight on the belt and can afford the higher cost.
As you are doing single tank diving, then you will also need a single tank adapter. These can be either small and low profile, like the OxyCheq Low Profile STA, or big, secure, and stable (as well as keeping the 1st stage away from the back of your head), like the one Halcyon or Hollis makes.
What I would do, though, if price was a factor, is to check on getting a BP that was a high end brand used. ScubaBoard usually has something in the classifieds area. Anything from Halcyon, Hollis, OMS, Zeagle, HOG, DSS, OxyCheq, etc. will be a good product. Same with a wing, as long as it doesn't have any holes in it haha. As for harnesses, if you want to keep it cheap, go with a really simple Hogarthian type harness. If it has all the d-rings, crotch strap, and quick release, it should be fine. If the harness is in bad shape you can always buy new webbing and put together another one. Just copy what's already on the plate.
If you'd rather not trust just yourself with such a purchase, check online for a complete, new setup. If you look around, they're easy to find around $400 US. Check here: Ultimate Hogarthian System - Dive Gear Express Or contact the people at Dive Right In Scuba: Dive Right In Scuba | Plainfield scuba diving lessons and scuba equipment. We also provide scuba certification for the Chicago area. DRIS is fantastic to work with and they'll get you what you need.
I use a standard weight belt along with my BP/W system, so I'm with you there.
I would also advise you to keep asking around and get more opinions. A lot of the folks on ScubaBoard know what they're talking about and will steer you in the right direction.
Thanks for the reply wreckdiver. Glad to hear that you like your Cruiser - I liked the fit and feel on land but haven't tried it in water yet.
I've been searching the classifieds on here fairly religiously.
Dumb question time:
Do I need to worry about the type of wing at this point (donut, horseshoe etc)? I'll only be diving singles for the next while, and can buy a new wing if that changes.
If I get a wing, so I need to get some kind of bungie system to prevent the wing wrapping around the tank or contorting and preventing proper release of air during a purge?
Is the inflater sold separately? How many purge valves are typical for a wing?
And if I buy the simple webbing harness (basically a length of nylon strap with d-rings on it), do I buy a crotchstrap separately, or is that all part of the single strap (or, as I seem to be finding, does it differ depending on the setup that I buy)?
Gunkter, Assuming you are diving AL 80's that you rent, and aren't moving up to your own tanks yet, you could get away with a 25-35lb wing.
Something like a dive rite travel wing, or Voyager wing.
The wing will come with an inflator, and at least mine came with a new hose to connect to the first stage. As for bungies, etc, I wouldn't bother, and many here will say it is a bad idea. All you need is to get a not to big wing.
You might have a look at LeisurePro, since you are ordering from them anyway -- they have a console with a Tech 2g computer, a pressure gauge and a compass for $250 (comes with a HP hose, too). You wouldn't be able to use the compass, but you might be able to resell it. But you'd have a computer and pressure gauge for that much money, with hose, and you could buy a couple of Deep Sea supply boots if you wanted to use the gauges on your wrist.
Bungies aren't necessary on a wing unless the wing is GROSSLY oversized. For example, I dove a 30 lb wing in the tropics with a 3 mil wetsuit and Al80 tank for a couple of years before I got a smaller wing -- it wasn't optimal, but it worked just fine. You have to bungie 90 lb wings, unless you want to cope with severe taco-ing, and then the bungies bring their own set of problems.
Deep diving in wetsuits in cold water has significant considerations. Thick neoprene loses a lot of lift -- I know someone who measured a 7 mil wetsuit as losing 23 pounds of lift at 100 feet. If you are doubling up with a core warmer, you can lose even more. This means a wing failure at depth can leave you seriously negative, to the point where you might not be able to swim up to the surface. The solution is ditchable weight or redundant buoyancy. Since you will be using a belt, you will have ditchable weight -- but you might want to give some thought as to whether you want ALL of your weight ditchable. Dropping a 20 lb weight belt at depth will pretty much guarantee that you won't be able to control your ascent, once the neoprene begins to rebound. You can deal with this by distributing your weights -- some on a belt, and some on the waistband or cambands or plate, depending on the setup you buy.
A bungee system isn't necessary on smaller wings, and off the top of my head I can't think of a singles wing that has them.
Most wings do come with an LP inflator hose too, just make sure it does when you order.
As for the crotch strap, if you buy new, the harness should come with one. If you get used and the one on there is too short (it's been trimmed to much by the previous owner), or doesn't have one, you can check on LeisurePro or pretty much any other site that sells BP/Ws and you can find a new crotch strap for around $15.00 US.
Halcyon is a fantastic brand but they're also at the top of the pack as far as price goes. So look around. Check those links I posted or try a company like Deep Sea Supply. And remember, you can mix and match too. For example, I have a buddy whose double tank setup includes an OxyCheq harness, a Halcyon backplate, a Hollis wing, and a Halcyon STA. As long as it's a good brand, usually you can't go wrong. I would strongly urge you to ensure you get a donut wing though. You more than likely wont have the dreaded taco effect too bad with a donut wing. Hollis, Halcyon, OxyCheq, and HOG make some of the better ones. I'm not sure about DSS or Golem but I've heard great things.
Seriously, go with a backplate, they are cheaper then I new bcd anyway. A smaller one like the zeagle at 5 pounds or so travels nice. A Backplate at it's core is just a hunk of mettle with some webbing running through holes cut in it, nothing to go wrong that you can't see with your eyes (frayed webbing ect), nothing complicated about them at all, why tend to be favored. You can get nicer harness then straight webbing then start building out things you like one piece at a time. The great thing about a BP is it's going to nicely spread a good chunk of weight evenly across your back. This helps almost everyone's profile no matter what else they wear . Tack on some dive rite pockets that add easy weight integration and you are ready to go... more or less.
I've investigated all of the links and still have a couple of questions:
- do I need an STA? Since I won't be switching between single/double, I would only need an STA to provide stability - which depends on which backplate and which wing I use. But I'm having a hard time determining which combos require an STA and which don't, and the forums seem to have divided opinions.
- and do I need sex bolts? And after reading several forum threads, I still have no idea whether I need sex bolts (is this to attach the wing and backplate together)?
I've got the following short list, in my current order of preference:
1) DiveRite AL bp, oxycheq Mach V 30# wing, DR hog harness, 2 cam bands for $375 at scubatoys or caveadventures
2) DiveRite AL bp + hog harness + HOG 32# wing from caveadventures/dive gear express for total of $250 + cost of cam bands
3) DiveRite AL bp + DR Voyager EXP 35# wing, DR harness, STA, 2 cam bands for $475 from DGE
4) Kydex bp + Torus 35# wing + harness from DSS for $460
5) GolemGear AL bp + 35# wing + 2 cambands + harness for $380
6) Hollis AL bp + Hollis 38# wing + DR harness + 2 cam bands for $410 from Divers Supply
Do these seem like good prices? I've scoured the forums and can't seem to find anything used for any cheaper, so I guess I'll go new.
I read a ton of reviews, and all of these seem to be positive (with oxycheq Mach V and DSS getting the best reviews, then DR Voyager EXP and then HOG). Each seem they will perform fine for a reasonable price. I'm a little wary about only getting a 30# wing but I've been playing with the Bouyancy_calculator spreadsheet and I seem to be hovering around the 30# mark so maybe I'll be alright.
Also TSandM that is an excellent point about distribution of weight - I will need to look at pockets to affix some weight to the harness. I don't really understand why simple nylon pockets seem to be so incredibly expensive but I'll keep looking.
Another question - what do I do about things like a safety sausage and spare mask? Do I buy a large pocket, and where would you recommend that I place them?
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. Tack on some dive rite pockets that add easy weight integration and you are ready to go... more or less.
