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By the way
To anyone that has participated in this thread. It was not my intention to start an argument. I just wanted to get other peeps views on the matter. One of the reasons I joined scuba board was to talk to people that love doing what I love to do...DIVE. If I wanted and argument I would go talk to my wife...lol. Well I hope to see some of you at Invade the Keys.
BTW can anyone tell me how to close this damn thread? LMAO
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Luis Pagan
:14:The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing:butnhome:
Asking for peoples views is the same as asking for a discussion unless everyone has the same opinion and that will rarely happen..
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I wonder if periodic short term exposure to risk can decrease your longterm risk of accidents. I hope it does..
"We have orders to not fire on anyone but Greenpeace" - Homer J. Simpson, Navy reserve.
I think every area is going to have its own customs. Some businesses have a policy of if a bus driver pulls in, he get a free meal. However, not all businesses do this. I think the same maybe true to Dive Operators. Some have a rocking businesses, that giving a few spots is not maxing the revenue. By the same token, the instructor has the right/choice to use another operator, that may give him a discount. Of course, this goes back to it being a free market society.
That said, I think an operator has a right to ask an 'free riding' instructor to lead a dive or to help in some small way, whether leading a dive or something. By the same token, I have booked a group of 3 on a 6 pack and they will see I am a DM and pull their DM off the boat and sell the boat as 7pax. They expect me to lead a dive for their divers. I had this happen twice and after the second time, I put a stop to it. It is also why I no longer identify myself as a DM anymore. If you expect me to do your job, then you should not be charging me to dive your boat. I should not have to work when I am diving with friends.
Last edited by Snoopyto; July 14th, 2008 at 07:06 AM.
Reason: word phrasing
Hi Snoopy.
Wow. They actually made you lead dives. Thats crazy. I appreciate your view on the matter and everyone else's also. Take care and say hello to the Mrs. for me. BTW it was nice meeting you at Invade the Keys.
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Luis Pagan
:14:The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing:butnhome:
If you meet the ratios no - If you don't meet the ratios yes....
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TT
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Sometimes there's just not enough rocks - Forest Gump.
You're not lost if you don't care where you are - Jim Cooper
Hi Snoopy.
Wow. They actually made you lead dives. Thats crazy. I appreciate your view on the matter and everyone else's also. Take care and say hello to the Mrs. for me. BTW it was nice meeting you at Invade the Keys.
Yeah, it is kind of why I bit my tongue the other night. After 4 years, it still bothers me. Granted, my own personal position is and remains, Instructors are bus drivers and deserve a free meal for bringing more business. But I have seen cases, where an instructor would let a few novices tag along with the class at a site when there is no DM on the boat, after skill sets are done. That adds the trip experience. I don't think it is to the extreme that it is unreasonable to ask of an Instructor. However, if your a paying customer like everyone else, you and your class should be on your own. Just as every other diver, no matter, what their certification level, should be able to dive on their own with out added responisbilites placed by the Diver Operator.
Depends... If you're a full-time instructor bringing them lots of business, then yes. If you're a part-timer only bringing them one or two studends every so often, then no. Usually, you can tell you are important to their operation if they occasionally refer students to you. If not, you probably don't have a business 'relationship' and are just a customer. Keep in mind, on any given day in the Keys most of the people on the boat are in a class with an independent instructor.
The instructors that I have seen get free rides usually bring 10 or 20 students, or more, per month. If you aren't doing that, then you're probably just competing with them for the same customers and forcing their rates down.
Operators also have to realize (and some do) that when an instructor, full time or part time, bring them students they're not only getting that diver for just one day. If the student likes what he sees there is a good chance that when the student finishes his or hers course they will probably return on their own to that same operation.
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Luis Pagan
:14:The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing:butnhome:
Instructors should ride free, as long as they are willing to be manifested as crew and there is not a physical space problem on the boat. If a charter boat is not willing to manifest me as crew and is so small that carrying an extra mate or deckhand is an issue, that's not usually a boat I want to dive on or take students on.
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"Too often ... people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought" - Leapfrog
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