Should an Instructor have to pay for a boat trip if he/she is taking students?

[Sonet]

This is something that has always caught my attention. I have been an instructor for 8 years and when I take my students on boat trips some operators charge me for my spot and some don't. I think it should be made a standard not to charge instructors if they are taking students on your boats. If the instructor is going for his own enjoyment then by all means he should pay. We as instructors have very little fringe benefits, I just think this should be one on them.

 

[tvictory]

Most dive shops give instructors discounts on dive gear too, since they know that the students will tend to buy the same stuff the instructor uses.

 

[Walter]

I don't understand your reasoning. Why should a company which is not your employer give you any fringe benefits at all? You seem to think you deserve something for nothing. You don't. OTOH, many charter boats will try to encourage instructors to use them for check out dives by doing two things - giving you a free ride and discounting your students. You are owed nothing. You do have the option of shopping around for charters that encourage you to bring them business. There are boats in your area that do encourage you to bring them business in just such a manner.

 

[ReefHound]

The key question is who owns the boat? If it's not the dive shop that you work for then they have no obligation to provide you a free or discounted trip. Those that do so do it for one reason - you are bringing them business in the form of your students.

If you're booking a six pack that will go with 4, and you are bringing 4 or 5 students, you are essentially handing them a trip. In most cases it would be foolish for an operator to not give you a strong incentive (free spot) to keep bringing classes like this on a regular basis. They are gaining 4 or 5 fares (don't expect a free spot for bringing two students) plus you are teaching your students proper tipping etiquette, right?

You don't even need to be an instructor. I've often booked boats for club trips at a "charter" price that is equivalent to a full boat less one or two free spots. Example, most Oriskany charters run $150 and carry 6 pax, I've always been able to get a boat for under $700. Maybe not a summer weekend which is prime time but certainly off season or mid week.

If you're in a resort area where the boats would run full anyway then what incentive do they have to offer free spots or discounts? They would just be losing a paying spot.

 

[In10se]

I don't understand your reasoning.

Nehh ... you understand. You just disagree.

Why should a company which is not your employer give you any fringe benefits at all?

He covered that question pretty well. Again, you understand but disagree with his line of reasoning.

You seem to think you deserve something for nothing. You don't.

Nothing? A class full of bookings to that boat qualifies as more that nothing. That he takes the time to book them alone qualifies him for a commission. Sell a car? Get paid. Sell a magazine? Get paid. Sell a class of dive students to ride a charter boat? Get ... what? Nothing?!?!?!? HE should be paid to bring them on board. No other industry can get free sales and then charge the salesman for the privilege of escorting the customers, accommodating them through the use of the product, and then removing them from the premises ... all while doing his/her best to encourage the return patronage to that business (the charter boat).

OTOH, many charter boats will try to encourage instructors to use them for check out dives by doing two things - giving you a free ride and discounting your students. You are owed nothing.

Yeah he is. At the very least a free ride, and at that he is getting gypped.

You do have the option of shopping around for charters that encourage you to bring them business. There are boats in your area that do encourage you to bring them business in just such a manner.

I agree with that one. IF the charter service is too cheap to pay what is rightfully due than he can/should seek other arrangements.

 

[under water]

I think what Walter is saying is that capitalism and free enterprise should work this out, not a 'code of ethics'.
There are arguments for and against and to make it a hard rule wouldn't make sense.
The flip side is that to make that spot free for the instructor (or arranger) means the others need to pay more.. Is that fair since the students are already paying for the instructor, should they also subsidize his fare?
Can you extend that to dive trips to exotic locales.. I know some do?
I'm just asking ..

 

[redacted]

I guess if you feel the boat op should be so grateful that you are supporting his business that he should give you a free trip then you should discuss this with the boat op. Perhaps you will discover whether he needs your support more than you need his.

Your other alternative is to just charge the students more if they are the ones really enjoying the benefit of your presence.

 

[peterbj7]

It's simply a question of marketing, and that is underlined by economics. I'll give a free place if it improves my bottom line. I may do so in the hope that it will improve my bottom line in the longer term. I certainly won't forgo a fare-paying passenger in the interests of giving a free place to someone else - fuel is just too costly nowadays.

From time to time I go out with other local operators (my competitors), and I never pay. They may do the same with me. It's on a stand-by basis, so if at the last moment a paying customer wants my slot they take it.

In the past I did quite a few (advanced) student dives with an instructor on someone else's boat. This was in Florida. The norm was that I paid all my instructor's costs, including for his boat place.

 

[Walter]

Nehh ... you understand. You just disagree.

You're mistaken. I understand what he wants. I do not understand his reasoning.

He covered that question pretty well. Again, you understand but disagree with his line of reasoning.

He didn't cover it at all.

Nothing? A class full of bookings to that boat qualifies as more that nothing. That he takes the time to book them alone qualifies him for a commission. Sell a car? Get paid. Sell a magazine? Get paid. Sell a class of dive students to ride a charter boat? Get ... what? Nothing?!?!?!? HE should be paid to bring them on board. No other industry can get free sales and then charge the salesman for the privilege of escorting the customers, accommodating them through the use of the product, and then removing them from the premises ... all while doing his/her best to encourage the return patronage to that business (the charter boat).

In all of those cases, the person getting paid actually works for or has a contract with the company paying them. That is not the case here. If I take a carload of my friends to Walmart and they each spend a bundle, I will get no compensation from Walmart. They owe me nothing and a charter operation (unless you have an agreement) owes you nothing for filling their boat.

Yeah he is. At the very least a free ride, and at that he is getting gypped.

Unless he has an agreement that is not being honored, he is not being cheated in any way.

I agree with that one. IF the charter service is too cheap to pay what is rightfully due than he can/should seek other arrangements.

It's not what is rightfully due. It's a matter of what has been agreed upon between two people (or companies) doing business with each other. If you don't have the balls to talk with someone and come to an agreement, you shouldn't expect them to give you something you've not discussed.

 

[Doc]

I think it should be made a standard not to charge instructors if they are taking students on your boats.

All in favor? Say "aye". If at any time the Instructor is observed having any "enjoyment", he will be retroactively charged for the charter.

It's called "negotiated booking fees". Call them up in advance, cut your deal.

Do this until we can get the new standards we just voted-in printed up and passed around to everybody.