Divemaster for a fee?

[Quero]

When I have a DMT, that trainee works alongside me. I don't ask him or her to do anything we aren't doing together--when it's time to haul tanks, we both haul; when it's time to wash gear, we both wash; when it's time to guide dives, we take turns briefing, leading, and taking charge. When I need a certified assistant (i.e., a fully-qualified professional), I pay that person. I've got a Rescue student now and am paying a colleague about $65 for two half-days of work playing the role of victim. I know it's not much considering North American pay scales, but wages here are low, and what I pay is a bit higher than the local average.

I heartily agree that when we professionals work for free, we devalue the profession. If you don't believe that your professional skills are worthy of being paid for, you are essentially calling and making yourself worthless.

[k ellis]

If you don't believe that your professional skills are worthy of being paid for, you are essentially calling and making yourself worthless.

Aint that the truth!

[TMHeimer]

Just as an isert here to post but I know of several shops who run a divemaster mill for the reasons mentioned above. They want free help when it comes to teaching and know that the ones who do it for a short period of time tire from having to constantly load up their gear travel to the same old dive spot time and time again and pay out of pocket for the joy of making the shop money.

I do love to divemaster no question about it. But I spend more time going to work in the swimming pool then I do the lake. Its cost prohibitive for me to goto the lake weekly at almost 100 dollars round trip for gas, tolls and meals in transit then have to pay the park fees and get a hotel or camp out. I would do it if it were closer though.

I do love however the swimming pool because the owner insist we use either gear he sells or his rental gear (Which he allows the divemasters and instructors to use for free) and also any tanks and air we need is supplied at no cost for the pool.

With that in mind I am out $10.00 for fuel to and from the shop and nothing more so its fun in that respect.

Divemastering is what it is just like any other sport hobby and job. If you love doing it then youll have the time of your life and if you dont enjoy it well then its time to look for something diffrent.

Just my 30 seconds of thought outside the box

k, Well, as I mentioned, I HOPE to do my first DMing this coming summer here. I do know that our shop provides tanks and air free to all working DMs and to DMCs, and that if so desired, one can use other shop equipment such as BCs and shorties. Well, that just makes sense. One wouldn't expect to say, pay for air in order to work for someone. A working DM (one who does 4 full courses), also gets equip. discounts and free air anytime for pleasure dives. In my case, should I luck into some OW courses it would mean about $75 gas costs per course and I'd get paid $200. Peanuts, but at least I'd break even on PADI and insurance costs if I did 2 classes. 3 would mean I'd be in the black. But I wouldn't do it for no pay or for $30. It's not about the money per se (who would consider DMing if they didn't enjoy it...), it's about the idea. To illustrate my own view more-- Each summer I spend 7-8 weeks playing concerts in N.Y. The cost of the whole thing (campground, trailer rental, gas, etc.) is about $4,000. The MOST I can make playing the gigs is $900. If it were reversed (the whole trip free, but no musician's pay), I wouldn't do it. This only makes sense if you can afford the trip of course, but also because you consider yourself worthy/valuable enough to be paid. As a professional.

[Karibelle]

@TMHeimer, I mean no offense. But this is what I was talking about... to a professional musician, someone who is willing to work for that amount IS what devalues the profession. You ARE doing it for no pay, even though you say you wouldn't do that with diving.

To reiterate my point as relates to this thread, working for less than (more than 75% less than) your expenses to do a job, in my opinion, hurts us all by devaluing the job that we are all trying to do.

Bowing out now.

kari

[TMHeimer]

I should be more clear on my gigs. For each gig, I work about half in rehearsal, half at gig for a total of 3 hours work for $100. Basically N.Y. local A.F.M. scale. I only make the trip there because I have been basically unable/unwilling to get myself into the music scene in Halifax. It is a tough raquet, as you know. Fortunately, I still have the money to make the trip to my native N.Y. If I lived there, it wouldn't be a $4K summer, it would be maybe $10 gas if that per gig. That I pay so much to go is my own choice, but has nothing to do with what I'm paid to play, having been a 35 year member of the union. The other guys all get paid the same.

Though irrelevant, I will say that while down there I also visit relatives, freinds, go fishing, and of course, a lot of diving. Of course if the concerts weren't there for me (with pay), the trip would not happen, but because I am silly enough to spend the bucks to go has nothing to do with working for free or for tips. And it certainly does nothing to hurt anyone in the A.F.M.

[Karibelle]

You're telling me that union scale in New York is $100 for 3 hours? Wow. I'm floored. Surprised. Like knock me over with a feather surprised. You basically are going on vacation and playing for free while you're there. So call it what it is. You're trying to play both sides - you say you wouldn't DM for free, and use your musical background as an example, but then turn around and do gigs for way less than a living wage. I'm not saying that's BAD, just that I disagree with your choice (which I do know you're free to make) as I feel it devalues your profession - both of them. It IS a tough racquet. Made tougher by those who are willing to do it for nothing - my point all along.

Having said all that, I do wish you well, and would love to hear you play sometime.

kari

[TMHeimer]

The local I belonged to for 35 years is just N. of NYC. I guess you're saying $33 (cash) an hour is not a living wage today. You may be right. I don't really know. When I retired from teaching Band in Manitoba in 1996 I figure I was making under $27 Canadian per hour before taxes, so that's about what, $16/net?. 15 years later, you may be correct that the $33 is quite low (keep in mind the recent C$ upswing). Am curious, what is the union scale in Alberta?
Assuming you are right about the $33 an hour being way low, there must be many folks in both countries working at different jobs for way less than that. Either way, you must admit it's not quite the same as DMing for free or tips. As far as my fellow musicians in the band(s) down there, I would imagine doing a 20 minute or less drive, working 3 hours and making $100 sounds pretty decent. My decision to travel down there and related costs has nothing to do with the job, however. Everyone else lives around there. So the cost of my personal trip doesn't devalue anything except my bank account. But you may well be right about the scale of pay. I never considered it low.

Karibelle, Actually, I did some checking on union scale for NYC local 802. And you'r right, it's more like $300+--for studio work and other high profile/top of the line gigs. Here is where I think we have "argued" for nothing. From your post back there, you mentioned your husband's "real" job is a rock musician, and quite a successful one. This probably puts him at a way different level of pay expectation (union or otherwise) than me, a guy who plays clarinet in "summer in the parks" concert bands. The money I make, I assume, at least according to our local, is right up there with casual concert band players' union scale nation wide. We all know that sports heroes make millions, but there is a minimum base salary in the pro leagues, as well. Perhaps we also agree that there should be a "minimum wage" acceptable for dive pros? If your husband has cornered the market somewhat and makes a living at it that's great. I got into teaching because my classical expertise would be not much help in doing that. I think we really agree way more than disagree. We can throw figures around forever anyway. It's been interesting.