Gilboa Quarry question

[Nitrox Junkie]

I saw on the GLWC and Gilboa's website where the quarry has been ice over already. I was wondering if anyone with the pass was turned away because of the ice? Mike would only let you dive last year if you had a ice dive cert which is a good move, but for the pass holders ice is Bad unless you have one. Just curious

Jeff "Great lakes divers"

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I saw on the GLWC and Gilboa's website where the quarry has been ice over already. I was wondering if anyone with the pass was turned away because of the ice? Mike would only let you dive last year if you had a ice dive cert which is a good move, but for the pass holders ice is Bad unless you have one. Just curious

Jeff "Great lakes divers"

Jeff, I was with Mike this weekend. Still frozen and he still requires overhead cert for diving it. Looks like it is starting to thaw though. He promised to update his website when this happens. He says he has turned away non cert divers. Joe

 

[MikeFerrara]

Most year Gilboa hasen't frozen over since I've been diving there. I can see where it would be a bad break for some one with a winter pass who doesn't want to or can'r dive under the ice.

I would think it'll be open water againn within the next couple of weeks. At least I hope so, I have people waiting for classes.

 

[Nitrox Junkie]

Thanks for the info Joe
A friend of mine up in Kalamazoo Mi talked to Mike Sat or Sun last weekend and found out that it was frozen over but a few hardy ice divers showed up to dive. He told her that the ice should be breaking soon and at that time divers will be able to pay by the day. He also said the quarry would be closed Jan - Mar in '05. Looks like his tactics backfired on him.

Jeff "Great lakes diver"

 

[diverbrian]

Thanks for the info Joe
A friend of mine up in Kalamazoo Mi talked to Mike Sat or Sun last weekend and found out that it was frozen over but a few hardy ice divers showed up to dive. He told her that the ice should be breaking soon and at that time divers will be able to pay by the day. He also said the quarry would be closed Jan - Mar in '05. Looks like his tactics backfired on him.

Jeff "Great lakes diver"

... the old system, it would have been closed this year. He wanted to try something different as he was losing money in the winter the year before.

If it will freeze up year after year, it won't matter anyways. It is essentially closed to most of us the minute that it freezes up. I'll still have my pass paid for off our GLWC outing and the one day that I was there this year. If I want to learn to ice dive, there are places quite a bit closer than Gilboa. I don't think it was his tactics that backfired as much as insurance costs going up and him not being able to financially justify keeping the staff there in the winter. He lost money off the place freezing up last year too. How about that warming trend, eh ?!

 

[MikeFerrara]

... the old system, it would have been closed this year. He wanted to try something different as he was losing money in the winter the year before.

If it will freeze up year after year, it won't matter anyways. It is essentially closed to most of us the minute that it freezes up. I'll still have my pass paid for off our GLWC outing and the one day that I was there this year. If I want to learn to ice dive, there are places quite a bit closer than Gilboa. I don't think it was his tactics that backfired as much as insurance costs going up and him not being able to financially justify keeping the staff there in the winter. He lost money off the place freezing up last year too. How about that warming trend, eh ?!

Most winters Gilboa doesn't freez. Or at least that's the way it's been since 96 or 97 when I started diving there.

The two insurance companies that I've had dive facility dealings with have different rate schedules that depend on anual income. They don't care if you're open or closed on any given day week or month. Their concern is how many people are comming and going (exposure not time) on an anual basis.


I know quit a few people that usually dive there a couple times in the winter who didn't go this year because of the new policy. Just from the people that I know of who didn't go this year (and had planned to) it would have come to a pretty good chunk of change and I don't know how much staff it would have really taken to check them in and out. Some places just have a drop box that's used in the off season.

Maybe I'm wrong but I really think he would have made more without the new policy. He for sure would have made more without the ice, especially 2 years in a row.

I wasn't there last winter because it froze then also but I was there a LOT the winter before and I remember being surprised at how busy it was. Nothing like in the summer but there were quit a few divers there. In fact I had Advanced Nitrox classes going and rented the bunk house (sometimes 2) lots of weekends.

 

[diverbrian]

Most winters Gilboa doesn't freez. Or at least that's the way it's been since 96 or 97 when I started diving there.

The two insurance companies that I've had dive facility dealings with have different rate schedules that depend on anual income. They don't care if you're open or closed on any given day week or month. Their concern is how many people are comming and going (exposure not time) on an anual basis.


I know quit a few people that usually dive there a couple times in the winter who didn't go this year because of the new policy. Just from the people that I know of who didn't go this year (and had planned to) it would have come to a pretty good chunk of change and I don't know how much staff it would have really taken to check them in and out. Some places just have a drop box that's used in the off season.

Maybe I'm wrong but I really think he would have made more without the new policy. He for sure would have made more without the ice, especially 2 years in a row.

I wasn't there last winter because it froze then also but I was there a LOT the winter before and I remember being surprised at how busy it was. Nothing like in the summer but there were quit a few divers there. In fact I had Advanced Nitrox classes going and rented the bunk house (sometimes 2) lots of weekends.

I will miss the place as that is about the only time that he makes money off of me. I will most likely still frequent the quarry in April/May and November/December when the charters aren't running, but that I still hate being forced to lay off diving for two or three months out of the year simply because I don't feel like taking another course and trying to round up buddies (and more gear) to ice dive. I guess that I will simply try to get my class assists for the pool in during the January-March from now on.

I don't think that there is any model where Mike W. could have made money in the winter with the quarry freezing though. That is simply bad weather interfering with operations.

 

[MCL]

Really, his only option seems to be that if he wants to keep the quarry open during the winter is to lost money then, and raise prices during in rest of the year to make up the difference.

 

[hantzu701]

I thought that the whole point of the season pass was to recoup the cost of bubblers to prevent ice from forming. Did Mike shut off the bubblers or are they simply ineffective below a certain temp?

Hantzu

 

[MikeFerrara]

What bubblers?