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What's simpler. A spg routed beside an already existing hose that can be read without unclipping or adding a 30" hose down the left side of the body that needs to be unclipped in order to be read.
I'm guessing what also goes into the equation are priority and scaling - how often do you need to check your SPG to justify having it that prominent, versus the importance of having the left d-ring uncluttered to read stage/deco SPGs (especially if these SPGs are part of a bottle switching process designed to ensure that you're going to the correct gas for your depth), swap bottles and leashes, or have unhindered access to the LPI in the event you need to disconnect it? I don't think it would be a stretch for someone to conclude that having something considered a backup being tucked away, is a simpler and more efficient setup than having it prominently routed in a way to create a harness of hoses and larger cluster of instruments in an area that requires a lot of precise and single-handed manipulation. I assume that simplicity, though highly preferred and effected, still follows function in the hogarthian setup, and that function is designed to include equipment beyond what we typically dive with on a recreational basis.
I don't know if this is what Bill Main or the other originators had in mind, I'm just thinking out loud here
I'm guessing what also goes into the equation are priority and scaling - how often do you need to check your SPG to justify having it that prominent, versus the importance of having the left d-ring uncluttered to read stage/deco SPGs (especially if these SPGs are part of a bottle switching process designed to ensure that you're going to the correct gas for your depth), swap bottles and leashes, or have unhindered access to the LPI in the event you need to disconnect it? I don't think it would be a stretch for someone to conclude that having something considered a backup being tucked away, is a simpler and more efficient setup than having it prominently routed in a way to create a harness of hoses and larger cluster of instruments in an area that requires a lot of precise and single-handed manipulation. I assume that simplicity, though highly preferred and effected, still follows function in the hogarthian setup, and that function is designed to include equipment beyond what we typically dive with on a recreational basis.
I don't know if this is what Bill Main or the other originators had in mind, I'm just thinking out loud here
I read this in the spirit of discussion and bantying ideas about so alls well. It's what I'm looking for actually.
I have never understand the notion that the spg is just a backup device though - considering how many threads one reads regarding people going OOA. It's actually the main instrument for reading the real (as opposed to predicted) amount of gas one has. Sure, with experience one can get a feel for gas consumption but I wonder how many people get themselves into trouble because they think it's "uncool" or "newbish" to just look at the darn thing.
Anyways, it's late and I have to hit the hay. Thanks again to all for the discussion so far.
I have never understand the notion that the spg is just a backup device though - considering how many threads one reads regarding people going OOA.
Frankly, I'm not there yet, either. I try to predict my gas usage before each SPG check and I'm sometimes 200psi off (and this is with doubles). However, even for me, with proper pre-dive planning and realistic estimates of consumption rate, you can get extremely predictive estimates for the total dive time, to the point where you check your SPG maybe 3 times during the entire dive. Calling it a "backup" is going a bit far in my own case, but I can certainly believe that experienced divers can relegate the SPG to a low rung on the priority ladder, especially when compared to some of the other issues that demand immediate attention and concentration.
Originally Posted by DaleC
I wonder how many people get themselves into trouble because they think it's "uncool" or "newbish" to just look at the darn thing.
My personal guess is that this particular situation happens extremely rarely, if at all. I don't know that anyone or any group considers it newbish or uncool to check an SPG, and I'd consider it horribly imprudent judgment to go on a dive thinking "I'm not sure of my remaining gas but people may be looking so I won't check my SPG." Rather, I imagine most OOG instances not resulting from being unable to surface are because people are distracted or narced or simply do not have a good sense of how much gas they're using for whatever reason and it escapes their mind to check, or maybe they KNOW they're out of gas and are clutching their SPG in their hand, but are too intimidated to be the one to call the dive.
What's simpler. A spg routed beside an already existing hose that can be read without unclipping or adding a 30" hose down the left side of the body that needs to be unclipped in order to be read.
I'd ask the question, why does it need to be read at all?
A normal, non-deco dive... if I look at my SPG twice, I'd be surprised. On a bigger deco dive, maybe three times
I'd ask the question, why does it need to be read at all?
A normal, non-deco dive... if I look at my SPG twice, I'd be surprised. On a bigger deco dive, maybe three times
These are incredible answers. We like the spg clipped off where we can't read it without performing supefluos actions. we like it burried behind stage bottles, we like it here becuase if you dive completely different from the way you dive now, it will not work. And hell you don't have to use the thing very much anyway, when everyone knows that running out of gas is a very serious and common problem for many diving accidents.
Not one decent answer why not to do it clipped to the inflator hose, in my opinion.
How so? When you have one or two bottles clipped off to the left waist D-Ring, finding it to unclip can become problematic especially during any stress. It would appear that having the SPG at mid point between the Left chest D-Ring and the shoulder would not interfere with bottles clipped to the same.
Fortunately, there is no "party line" when it comes to being Hogarthian (like DIR). It's the process of simplification that's important. Change is not only inevitable, it's appreciated when it makes things work more intuitively and easily. I would suggest that if you are not evaluating and re-evaluating your set up, you are not really Hoagarthian, no matter how closely you imitate the standard set up.
Dumpster Diver... I fully agree! Add just one stressor and your estimate of air consumption can be lethally inaccurate. I wonder how many of these guys do the same when they drive their car! "No, no, I insist that my gas gauge be put on the left side of the Driver's seat and out of the way!"
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Originally Posted by DaleC
