BP/W Riding up.

[CaptainKidd]

Finally got to dive my new Halcyon BP/W setup today and although I expected a different experience than I'm used to with my Knighthawk BCD, ran into some issues.

The gear: Halcyon Eclipse 30 w/standard hog harness and hardware.

First. The rig seemed to be extremely tight around my arms while on land. So much so, I wasn't sure I'd be able to reach my left shoulder with my right hand. However, once in the water the entire rig rode up high on my back until my first stage was at the back of my head, preventing me from looking forward. The shoulder straps then seemed quite loose (I could've slid them right off). I understand the obvious question will be "was the crotch strap tight enough?" To my knowledge, yes, it was. At least I thought so. Am I missing something? Any tips for a noob?

Second. My trim and buoyancy were clearly different. I get it. I seemed to have this tendency to rise to a vertical position, no matter how I tried to position myself. I felt I was fighting my position for the entire dive. I had 10lbs on a weight belt, diving a 100 cubic foot, steel cylinder. Again, any tips or suggestions?

Thanks for any feedback you feel like throwing at me.

Cheers!

[Bogie]

Your BP/W is obviously not adjusted or trimmed correctly.

I would go to your LDS or instructor knowledgeable about BP/W and get you fitted correctly, trimmed, etc. The UTD and GUE agencies have extensive knowledge of BP/W if you wanted to take an extensive class.

[sea2summit]

Diving wet or dry? Stainless or AL BP? 100cft steel, steel BP, STA, 10lbs seems like a lot of weight possibly overweighted. For sure not adjusted right, take a look at this YouTube - GUE Backplate how to

[saxplayer1004]

how thick was your wetsuit that you needed 10 lbs on top of 8lbs for BP/STA and a HP100? That's like 10mm farmer john world...

For me, I have problems with HOG harnesses... Similar to how you described. So I don't put slide locks on the shoulder straps. This is frowned upon by a lot of people, but it's the only way I can get around quick releases, so I do it. You should, keyword should, be able to tighten the shoulder straps once you're trimmed out under water. This will keep the whole rig a lot lower on your back.

Crotch strap does more of keeping the bottom of the BC from lifting off of your back than from riding into your head when you're under water. It certainly helps at the surface, but it's much better used under water for the lift stuff. Also keeps the plate from sliding off to one side or the other.

[TSandM]

If the rig is tight on land, but loose underwater, the crotch strap is too loose. It should be tight enough to tug the waistband down a bit, and the waist band should be snug.

Really, the absolute best way to get things sorted is to do a dive with someone who knows how it's done. With your location, you have truly a TON of resources to get the harness adjusted properly, and your weighting straightened out.

[DevonDiver]

The gear: Halcyon Eclipse 30 w/standard hog harness and hardware.

I dive the same gear. It fits me like a glove and keeps me in perfect horizontal trim.

First. The rig seemed to be extremely tight around my arms while on land. So much so, I wasn't sure I'd be able to reach my left shoulder with my right hand.

It shouldn't be that tight. You shouldn't expect rucksack levels of comfort whilst on land, but it shouldn't be a discomfort to carry it either.

Do you have the straps crossed behind your neck or not?

However, once in the water the entire rig rode up high on my back until my first stage was at the back of my head, preventing me from looking forward. The shoulder straps then seemed quite loose (I could've slid them right off). I understand the obvious question will be "was the crotch strap tight enough?" To my knowledge, yes, it was. At least I thought so. Am I missing something? Any tips for a noob?

If the crotch strap is correctly fitted, then it should be impossible for the kit to ride up. Simple as that. It needs to be adjusted more snug.

The shoulder straps should feel nice and loose underwater. Don't worry, you won't fall out of it! lol

Second. My trim and buoyancy were clearly different. I get it. I seemed to have this tendency to rise to a vertical position, no matter how I tried to position myself. I felt I was fighting my position for the entire dive. I had 10lbs on a weight belt, diving a 100 cubic foot, steel cylinder. Again, any tips or suggestions?

Without know your entire configuration (SS or Ali backplate, exposure suit, etc?) it's impossible to be absolutely clear, but it does sound as if you are overweighted.

More weight = more pull down on your lower body.
More weight = more air in the BCD to compensate, pulling up on your upper body.
The result is a pull towards vertical.

Get your overall weighting requirement sorted first...only then move onto the fine-tuning measures for trim, like adding trim weights, tank adjustment etc.

[Dive-aholic]

Tighten the crotch strap. I keep my crotch strap about an inch shorter than where my waist strap runs. So when the crotch strap is on, my waist strap is being pulled down by it. This makes it so there is no movement of the harness/wing.

[saxplayer1004]

The Eclipse 30 is what we teach in, so a bunch of experience with it... Never had any trim problems, but at the same time, unless I'm diving with a 7mm farmer john, I don't ever wear a weight belt. 10lbs shouldn't be enough to affect trim that much though.

What Andy said sounds right though, and goes with my initial comment on being heavy. More lead=more air in BC. More air in bc=more lift pulling the plate off of you, hence the hitting you in the back of the head

That being said. Shoulder strap length is less important for this situation than making sure your waist belt and crotch strap are tight enough. Shoulder straps don't do a whole lot under water. there is some pull on them, but nothing compared to your waist belt. Tanks are naturally top heavy underwater. this is exaggerated even more so with a first stage stuck on there. Even in an AL80, the top of the tank will be pushed down if you're trimmed right, and the bottom will be lifting. Keep the bottom down and the tank won't move. This is accomplished with a crotch strap and waist belt.
Same suggestion Rob had with keeping the crotch strap tight enough to pull the waist belt down. If this is uncomfortable on land, which it ought to be, loosen your waist belt a little bit, and tighten it back up when you're in the water. This is a regular habit that we teach our students. More important with the weight belt, but due to wetsuit compression as well as a change in the affects of gravity, you need to tighten your weight belt and waist belt once you have finished your descent. This should snug everything up quite well and fix a few of your problems.

[CaptainKidd]

Thanks everyone! OK, I'll fill in some blanks first of all.

Rig - Halcyon Eclipse 30, SS plate, hog harnes, STA, cam bands.
Wetsuit - 7mm with additional custom hood/vest - 3mm vest, 7mm hood. Totaling 10mm on core.
Tank - HP Steel 100

Dove with 10 lbs on belt cuz I'm used to diving about 18 lbs in my other BCD. So I figured, 6 lbs for plate, plus 10 lbs on belt should get me down. Maybe this in fact, is too much for this type of set up. Lots of trial and error in my future it seems.

In terms of being fitted... a friend (UTD instructor) did help me with that when I got the rig. I further fine tuned it in a wetsuit and it seemed to be pretty locked in, which is why I was so confused once in the water. I'll try getting it into the pool tomorrow to further adjust things... I guess the first thing I need to look at is the crotch strap. I'll see if that helps. Another problem I had, was since the rig was so high up on my back, I could hardly reach my spg on my left side. It was in a weird place, and hard to unclip. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get it in line... Need it good to go for Sat. on Catalina.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the assistance.

[DevonDiver]

Might help if you could post a picture, stood in your rig?