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Hi All,
I have seen two instructors yesterday teaching wearing what I would call a belt and buckle arangement for their personal weight belts.
They were both carring their slates so I am to assume teaching as they also had divers with them.
Hardly what I would call quick release!
What does the board say of this set up?
Have I witnessed a breach of standards?
I am thinking yes?
Duncan
Can you describe the "belt and buckle" thing more clearly, please?
R..
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WARNING: All discussions about diver training on Scubaboard will inevitably boil down to a few narcissistic prima donnas arguing that everyone who doesn't see the world as they do are losers.
You don't mention agency but the PADI standard says they must have "a weight system and weights (if necessary for neutral buoyancy)". One could loosely interpret that as not having to have any ditchable weights although that would be silly, because ditchable weights are just a de facto part of diving, in the same way cars are built with wheels that are detachable.
It is not essential to have a weight system that is fully ditchable, but if there are weights that are not on a quick release system, they should obviously not compromise achievement of positive buoyancy in an emergency - ie any remaining weight should still allow the diver to be positively buoyant.
As an example - I wear 6kg (a bit over 13lbs) in a 5mm semi-dry suit. 2 kg are in trim pockets in my BC and are not easily ditchable in an emergency, however if I ditch my 4kg weight belt with an empty BCD, I am positively bouyant.
It's not necessarily a violation of standards, but as roturner suggests - we weren't there, so can't comment without knowing exactly what he/she was wearing.
... not having to have any ditchable weights although that would be silly, because ditchable weights are just a de facto part of diving...
In the words of Phil Harris, "It ain't necessarily so."
If you don't need extra weight to sink, don't wear it.
In my young skinny guy days, I was perfectly neutral in salt water with my 72 (no bc) and a bathing suit. Our mantra was "Wetsuits are for wimps, J-valves are for wimps, weightbelts are for fatties." We never had any ditchable weight.
These days I'm a fattie (based on my earlier criteria - be careful what you say in your youth ) but still get the same effect with a 72 in fresh water, or with an E7-100 (or larger steel tank) in salt water, or with doubles even in a drysuit. Bottom line - I dive more with no weight than I do with weights.
However... if you are going to dive with no ditchable weight and you are more than a few pounds negative with an empty BC, (like diving steel doubles) you need to carry a redundant lift device to replace those ditchable weights you aren't carrying. This can be a drysuit, or an extra lift bag, or a double bladder, etc... because having to swim that weight up with a failed BC could be impossible, depending on your depth and how negative you are.
Rick
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"You can have peace, or you can have Freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." (Heinlein)
"... they saw the deeds of the LORD, his wondrous works in the deep." (Ps107:24)
I am reading this to mean a belt with holes in it and a prong on the buckle fits into one of those holes to secure the belt.
A couple comments:
1. Does having this buckle make it less of a "quick release mechanism"? I have seen plenty of integrated BCD that you have to unclip, pull, and wiggle the weights out of the pockets. Not what I would really call quick release.
2. Even with a buckle, I would call these ditchable. Even as a rescuer coming upon someone wearing this, it might take me a second, but I could still ditch the weights. Coming upon a stranger I would still have to spend a second to figure out their weight harness, belt, pockets, etc.
I think Duncan may be describing the old style "Marseilles Weight Belt", still popular with free divers. Being made of neoprene thet adjust themselves when the wet suit compresses at depth. http://newportfreediveco.com/BeltsKn...cksGloves.html
I think Duncan may be describing the old style "Marseilles Weight Belt", still popular with free divers. Being made of neoprene thet adjust themselves when the wet suit compresses at depth. http://newportfreediveco.com/BeltsKn...cksGloves.html
Indeed that is the type of belt.
True enough it would take a few seconeds to establish which type of system any diver had in an emergency as a previous poster commented,quick release buckle or integrated are still one handed methods of release where as this type of buckle is not.
PADI Open water manual page 92;
The quick release is the most important feature of any weight system.
It also states that its to be released with one hand.
The same could be said as to what is done if the belt itself is to long as to how one tucks the free end under the belt so as not to cause problem on release.If it is tucked under itself not leaving the free end out.
True enough it would take a few seconeds to establish which type of system any diver had in an emergency as a previous poster commented,quick release buckle or integrated are still one handed methods of release where as this type of buckle is not.
PADI Open water manual page 92;
The quick release is the most important feature of any weight system.
It also states that its to be released with one hand.
The same could be said as to what is done if the belt itself is to long as to how one tucks the free end under the belt so as not to cause problem on release.If it is tucked under itself not leaving the free end out.
The grey area is what is a "quick release"? To me this means not tied in a knot and nothing complex (like 20 steps). Since this appears to be a "standard belt buckle", I would not call it complex. I could release that as the diver or rescuer with one hand.
For the too long of a belt issue, 1) if it is a rental ask for a shorter belt, 2) if you own the belt, cut it 3) if all else fails dive with it flapping in the breeze.
I think there is not too much interpretation as to what a wight system is or how it should be worn.
One hand quick release in case of emergencies, for the diver or rescuer. Right hand release as standard for belts so we all know where we are, conspicuously marked toggles for integrated weight systems and the same applies for harness options.
I agree with AndrewA. A lot of freedivers wear this type of belt with weights. It can be ditched easily and in my opinion would meet PADI's standard of a quick release system.
At the end of the day it has to meet the (legal term) "standard of care" within the diving community. This means you would have to be able to get diving experts and other good instructors to testify that they would do the same thing. You could do that with this set up.
) but still get the same effect with a 72 in fresh water, or with an E7-100 (or larger steel tank) in salt water, or with doubles even in a drysuit. Bottom line - I dive more with no weight than I do with weights.
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