Advice on buying used equipment
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To be honest I'll start by saying to find a trusted mentor or buy new.
The exception may be retired shop rental gear sold serviced and with some warranty period.
Be sure to include, purchase price, required service and risk in your comparison against the new price of an agressive retailer. Make sure it is a good deal for you.
Until you become knowledgable enough to not be starting this thread I would stay away from private sales on your own.
Pete
The exception may be retired shop rental gear sold serviced and with some warranty period.
Be sure to include, purchase price, required service and risk in your comparison against the new price of an agressive retailer. Make sure it is a good deal for you.
Until you become knowledgable enough to not be starting this thread I would stay away from private sales on your own.
Pete
drrich2
Contributor
Take a long, hard look at the value proposition.
Regulators are complex and delicate enough to require occasional servicing. If you buy a used one, what's it going to cost to go get it serviced? Okay, how's that + cost of a used one stack up to a new one?
On the other hand, I've bought used fins, and I would consider a used computer if the price was quite good. I'd probably be fine with a used set of spring straps or a used mask that fit well.
Wet suits have neoprene bubbles that compress going down & re-expand going up on every dive, so they have a finite life. I can't tell you what 'finite' means exactly for a given suit. From what I recall reading up in the past, probably over a hundred dives. Maybe a lot more than that. But over time, it will lose insulating ability.
So, if the used gear weren't drastically cheap from a source I had a good level of confidence about, I would:
1.) Buy mask, fins, spring straps used. Maybe a titanium dive knife (If you get a knife, get something rust-proof. Believe me now or blow $30-40 and believe me later...)
2.) Buy my reg. new.
3.) Buy a computer used IF it were the one I wanted (for me, that includes a download option to put the dive log on my computer for a detailed permanent record).
4.) Consider a used BCD if not used much.
5.) Consider a used wet suit if a good brand, a good fit, not dove over a couple dozen times & 1/3 or less the price of a new one, maybe?
Richard.
Regulators are complex and delicate enough to require occasional servicing. If you buy a used one, what's it going to cost to go get it serviced? Okay, how's that + cost of a used one stack up to a new one?
On the other hand, I've bought used fins, and I would consider a used computer if the price was quite good. I'd probably be fine with a used set of spring straps or a used mask that fit well.
Wet suits have neoprene bubbles that compress going down & re-expand going up on every dive, so they have a finite life. I can't tell you what 'finite' means exactly for a given suit. From what I recall reading up in the past, probably over a hundred dives. Maybe a lot more than that. But over time, it will lose insulating ability.
So, if the used gear weren't drastically cheap from a source I had a good level of confidence about, I would:
1.) Buy mask, fins, spring straps used. Maybe a titanium dive knife (If you get a knife, get something rust-proof. Believe me now or blow $30-40 and believe me later...)
2.) Buy my reg. new.
3.) Buy a computer used IF it were the one I wanted (for me, that includes a download option to put the dive log on my computer for a detailed permanent record).
4.) Consider a used BCD if not used much.
5.) Consider a used wet suit if a good brand, a good fit, not dove over a couple dozen times & 1/3 or less the price of a new one, maybe?
Richard.
FM1520
Contributor
I bought almost all of my gear off Craigslist: Deep Sea Supply BP/W, SCUBA Pro jet fins, wet suit, dry suit, tanks (all kinds)... the only thing I don't by used is gloves and booties, of course. There is a lot of attrition in this sport which means there is a lot of quality gear on Craigslist. Take advantage of it.
Not sure where you are but location makes a difference. There is a pretty healthy diving population here in San Diego so there is typically a lot to choose from. If you are not in a diving local then buying used may not be much of an option.
Not sure where you are but location makes a difference. There is a pretty healthy diving population here in San Diego so there is typically a lot to choose from. If you are not in a diving local then buying used may not be much of an option.
Weights are BIG opportunity. You can't have too much variety and deals can be spotted on CraigsList.
Same deal for other less critical items like a dive flag, maybe a light.
Same deal for other less critical items like a dive flag, maybe a light.
The dive industry would like everyone to believe that is so, fact is they are neither complex or delicate. In reality, they are simple and very robust. Now it is true they need occasional servicing, how often is a big debate. There is nothing at all wrong with used equipment if it's in good working order. Another of the big myths that dive shops and divers who have drank too much of the coolaid like to put out is "never buy used regulators, they are not safe". If you take just a second to think about it, EVERONE of us uses "used " on almost every dive we do, the only question is who used it last, you or someone else. Now used equipment in unknown condition, which is really what we are discussing is a different matter.
What someone looking at used equipment needs to understand is regualors do need to be reasonably cared for and on occasion do need servicing so that needs to be considered when purchasing used. It is a very good idea to have any unknown condition equipment serviced before trusting it on any serious dive...10feet in a pool is not a big deal. With that in mind, when looking at used equipment, you must consider what the inital service will cost, what parts will cost and if you can get the reg serviced at all. There are a lot of older brands and models that are no longer servicable (by a dealer). For example, Dacor regulators are very common on the used market but since they went out of business several years ago, finding service is almost impossible. On the other hand, if you stick with either a current model (from the last 10years or so) by a major manufacturer, parts and service are usually easy to find. Almost any Scubapro or Aqualung (US Diver) regs of any age fit into this class with a few exceptions.
Initial servicing a used regs in unknown condition adds another $100-150 to the price of a used reg. Many folks will tell you to buy new to avoid this initial service and because some manufacturers have "parts for life" programs they suggest this is a very valuable part of buying new. What they fail to tell the new diver is while the PARTS are "free" the labor to clean and install the parts ($50 to 100) is the exact same as a used reg of the same make. As far as service is conserned, you only miss the first years labor cost, all the rest are the same. And you have to jump through hoops to keep the parts for life benifet, miss one of the hoops and you now have the same used regs as if you purchased it used. Obviouly, that inital cost of service does impact the "value" of a used reg. If you purchase a high end reg for a fraction of it's new price and spend $100 on initial service, it's a good deal. On the other hand, paying almost new prices and then having it serviced is not a good deal.
Used can be a great deal or a waste of money, careful and informed judgement is needed to seperate the deals from the duds.
traveler218
Contributor
I agree with Herman. Buying used, even regulators can be a great way to save some money. I paid $210. For a used Aqualung Titan regulator with alternate air source and bc hose in December. All of it had just been serviced and was in great shape. I have used it on 20 dives since and have had no problem. I bought an Intermediate Pressure Gauge and check it periodically but have not needed to get it serviced.
I bought a new wetsuit because buying one someone else had pee'd in didn't appeal to me. Most of my other gear was bought used. I did buy a new computer because I wanted a specific set of capabilities and the manufacturer was having a sale. Ironically, that is the one piece of equipment I have had the most trouble with.
The main thing to look at IMHO is the cost of suitable new equipment vs. used. If you can find new gear on closeout or just a good price, it may be comparable to what you will pay used. There is a lot of used gear on Craigslist that has seen very little use. Asking price is usually too high, so don't be afraid to offer less. Frankly I would never pay much more than ½ price for most used gear unless it is in great shape and is exactly what I am looking for.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk HD
I bought a new wetsuit because buying one someone else had pee'd in didn't appeal to me. Most of my other gear was bought used. I did buy a new computer because I wanted a specific set of capabilities and the manufacturer was having a sale. Ironically, that is the one piece of equipment I have had the most trouble with.
The main thing to look at IMHO is the cost of suitable new equipment vs. used. If you can find new gear on closeout or just a good price, it may be comparable to what you will pay used. There is a lot of used gear on Craigslist that has seen very little use. Asking price is usually too high, so don't be afraid to offer less. Frankly I would never pay much more than ½ price for most used gear unless it is in great shape and is exactly what I am looking for.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk HD
jjjjeremy
Contributor
So, my used/new rundown:
Mask - buy new. The silicone is going to be better on modern masks. Although used masks are a dime a dozen they're usually really old. Spring for the 30-50 bucks and spend an hour in a dive shop with someone who wants to get you a good fitting mask.
Snorkel - used. You won't really be using this, and perfectly good used snorkels are EVERYWHERE
Fins - used. As you'll see, price for scuba gear drops dramatically once it's been used. You can find a great pair of fins for almost nothing. Just make sure that they aren't more than 5-10 years old, don't have cracks, straps are in good condition, not bent funny, etce
Weights - buy used. Can easily find them for less than $1 a pound on craigslis
Wetsuit - used. People buy and change styles all the time. There are good deals out there, just know how it should fit. It might take you a few purchases and a few dives to get the perfect one, but in the mean time you can flip them (buy low, sell higher) until "the one" comes along.
Hood, gloves, booties - i've had a hard time finding these good and used. Gloves wear out quickly, hoods are often improperly stored, booties have other people's feet in them, not to mention that's where all the urine ends up.....Look to Amazon. If you have a Prime account, you can buy a bunch, try them on, return shipping is free.
Dive accessories - used. I'm talking compass, clips, belts, slates, knives, clips, bits, bobs. You can usually find someone selling a box-o-junk for less than $20.
Knife - used if you can find it. Good small knives are hard to find used. You can find them for really cheap online, and you're gonna loose a few. I'd go stainless and just maintain it.
Computer - used if you can find one that has all the features you want. I've been hunting for a Suunto Mosquito for a while, but can't find it
Gauges - used if you need them. You're computer might take care of all of this for you, especially if you have a transmitter. If you go analog, go used. People give these things away, especially if they're attached to a regulator set.
BCD - if you are ok looking like you're from 1993, go with used. You can find great deals out there, and the cost of service plus a low purchase price won't
exceed the cost new. If you can find a used BP/W setup, go for it, at least for the backplate, harness, and tank adapters. A newer but used wing with out-of-warranty service may exceed the cost of a new one.
Regulator set - this is where you're going to do your math. You can find "great" deals all over the place. People seem to be giving these things away, especially if they're more than 10 years old. The problem is the out-of-warranty service and cost of service parts. So let's take a couple examples (this is what I am going through right now at the moment with some FREE gear I just acquired):
1. Aqualung Conshelf 22: 1st, 2nd, Octo for free: Because this is an older regulator, and hasn't been in service for at least 5-10 years, it needs a complete overhaul. At my local dive shop this is $90 ($30 per stage) + parts. I have to pay for parts because I am not the original owner and didn't buy from them, and the set is out of warranty. Thankfully this is a common regulator, and parts are readily available at about $30 per stage retail. So that's about $200 after tax to get it up and running again. Because this is out of warranty and I didn't buy from my local shop, annual service will be $40 plus $90 in parts again at a cost of $130 per year.
2. Aqualung Titan: Titan 1st, 2nd, and ABS Octo for ~$500 from my LDS. This is nearly identical in function and service parts as the used Conshelf 22, and comes with a lifetime warranty with free service parts. Aqualung requires a service/overhaul/service/overhaul annual maintenance schedule. My LDS charges $30 for labor for a service, and $60 for an overhaul if purchased from them.
Assuming I follow the same service/overhaul/service/overhaul schedule for both regulators
Year Conshelf Titan
1 $200 $500
2 Svc $330 $530
3 O/H $530 $590
4 Svc $660 $620
So you can see that after only four years, the new regulator set will cost less than the used regulator set because of the high cost of out of warranty service for the Conshelf. This may be different for you if you can find different prices for regulator services. I've done something quite a bit different though. I got the Conshelf set in a box-o-junk that also came with a "vintage" Mares MR12 III regulator set with gauges, all for a steal because I was able to show the seller the extremely high cost of service, and he just wanted to get SOME money for his old dive stuff. I sold the Mares set on eBay within a few hours for much more than I bought the entire set (some guy in Tavernier must have a vintage addiction), and when I've sold off everything else that I don't want I should be about $100 ahead. That will pay for an overhaul from the people over at ScubaToys.com, and from then on it's another $100 a year for a complete overhaul. That's the lowest price I can find, and costs about as much as all the service parts would cost if I purchased them and did the service myself (assuming that I can).
So I guess the end point is, whether used or new is the best deal all depends on you. If you have a LDS that does inexpensive service, or you are willing to do the work to hunt around for great deals, then used might be the route for you (especially if you don't know how much diving you'll be doing). If you just want something now, and KNOW that you are going to be diving a few years out, then new might be the better option. Because I made a lot of bad purchases that I was able to sell for more, and because I've been willing and put in the time and effort to buy and flip gear I have a full dive set and I'm ahead money. Granted this has been spread out over a couple of years and I've been living in coastal areas with a lot of craigslisters. As always, YMMV.
Mask - buy new. The silicone is going to be better on modern masks. Although used masks are a dime a dozen they're usually really old. Spring for the 30-50 bucks and spend an hour in a dive shop with someone who wants to get you a good fitting mask.
Snorkel - used. You won't really be using this, and perfectly good used snorkels are EVERYWHERE
Fins - used. As you'll see, price for scuba gear drops dramatically once it's been used. You can find a great pair of fins for almost nothing. Just make sure that they aren't more than 5-10 years old, don't have cracks, straps are in good condition, not bent funny, etce
Weights - buy used. Can easily find them for less than $1 a pound on craigslis
Wetsuit - used. People buy and change styles all the time. There are good deals out there, just know how it should fit. It might take you a few purchases and a few dives to get the perfect one, but in the mean time you can flip them (buy low, sell higher) until "the one" comes along.
Hood, gloves, booties - i've had a hard time finding these good and used. Gloves wear out quickly, hoods are often improperly stored, booties have other people's feet in them, not to mention that's where all the urine ends up.....Look to Amazon. If you have a Prime account, you can buy a bunch, try them on, return shipping is free.
Dive accessories - used. I'm talking compass, clips, belts, slates, knives, clips, bits, bobs. You can usually find someone selling a box-o-junk for less than $20.
Knife - used if you can find it. Good small knives are hard to find used. You can find them for really cheap online, and you're gonna loose a few. I'd go stainless and just maintain it.
Computer - used if you can find one that has all the features you want. I've been hunting for a Suunto Mosquito for a while, but can't find it
Gauges - used if you need them. You're computer might take care of all of this for you, especially if you have a transmitter. If you go analog, go used. People give these things away, especially if they're attached to a regulator set.
BCD - if you are ok looking like you're from 1993, go with used. You can find great deals out there, and the cost of service plus a low purchase price won't
exceed the cost new. If you can find a used BP/W setup, go for it, at least for the backplate, harness, and tank adapters. A newer but used wing with out-of-warranty service may exceed the cost of a new one.
Regulator set - this is where you're going to do your math. You can find "great" deals all over the place. People seem to be giving these things away, especially if they're more than 10 years old. The problem is the out-of-warranty service and cost of service parts. So let's take a couple examples (this is what I am going through right now at the moment with some FREE gear I just acquired):
1. Aqualung Conshelf 22: 1st, 2nd, Octo for free: Because this is an older regulator, and hasn't been in service for at least 5-10 years, it needs a complete overhaul. At my local dive shop this is $90 ($30 per stage) + parts. I have to pay for parts because I am not the original owner and didn't buy from them, and the set is out of warranty. Thankfully this is a common regulator, and parts are readily available at about $30 per stage retail. So that's about $200 after tax to get it up and running again. Because this is out of warranty and I didn't buy from my local shop, annual service will be $40 plus $90 in parts again at a cost of $130 per year.
2. Aqualung Titan: Titan 1st, 2nd, and ABS Octo for ~$500 from my LDS. This is nearly identical in function and service parts as the used Conshelf 22, and comes with a lifetime warranty with free service parts. Aqualung requires a service/overhaul/service/overhaul annual maintenance schedule. My LDS charges $30 for labor for a service, and $60 for an overhaul if purchased from them.
Assuming I follow the same service/overhaul/service/overhaul schedule for both regulators
Year Conshelf Titan
1 $200 $500
2 Svc $330 $530
3 O/H $530 $590
4 Svc $660 $620
So you can see that after only four years, the new regulator set will cost less than the used regulator set because of the high cost of out of warranty service for the Conshelf. This may be different for you if you can find different prices for regulator services. I've done something quite a bit different though. I got the Conshelf set in a box-o-junk that also came with a "vintage" Mares MR12 III regulator set with gauges, all for a steal because I was able to show the seller the extremely high cost of service, and he just wanted to get SOME money for his old dive stuff. I sold the Mares set on eBay within a few hours for much more than I bought the entire set (some guy in Tavernier must have a vintage addiction), and when I've sold off everything else that I don't want I should be about $100 ahead. That will pay for an overhaul from the people over at ScubaToys.com, and from then on it's another $100 a year for a complete overhaul. That's the lowest price I can find, and costs about as much as all the service parts would cost if I purchased them and did the service myself (assuming that I can).
So I guess the end point is, whether used or new is the best deal all depends on you. If you have a LDS that does inexpensive service, or you are willing to do the work to hunt around for great deals, then used might be the route for you (especially if you don't know how much diving you'll be doing). If you just want something now, and KNOW that you are going to be diving a few years out, then new might be the better option. Because I made a lot of bad purchases that I was able to sell for more, and because I've been willing and put in the time and effort to buy and flip gear I have a full dive set and I'm ahead money. Granted this has been spread out over a couple of years and I've been living in coastal areas with a lot of craigslisters. As always, YMMV.
$90 for a 1st stage and 2 2nd stage kits is well over the top.
A more normal cost should be $55 to $60.
Don't forget that regulators do not need to be serviced every year.
Admittedly I service my own regulators and am very familiar with Conshelfs and Titans.....here's what it would cost me.
The Conshelf 22.
If it does not have the new blue HP seat and grey diaphragm I would put new ones in along with the balance chamber o ring.
The sintered filter can be dunked in vinegar and reused.
I am not going to need a full service kit which will include o rings for hose ends and dust cap.
I have never needed to put a new LP seat in any Conshelf made after 1975.....there are no other parts in the 2nd stage kit that are needed.
Total cost (retail) from my local shop is less than $20.
I will not need to buy any more parts for at least 5 years.
A more normal cost should be $55 to $60.
Don't forget that regulators do not need to be serviced every year.
Admittedly I service my own regulators and am very familiar with Conshelfs and Titans.....here's what it would cost me.
The Conshelf 22.
If it does not have the new blue HP seat and grey diaphragm I would put new ones in along with the balance chamber o ring.
The sintered filter can be dunked in vinegar and reused.
I am not going to need a full service kit which will include o rings for hose ends and dust cap.
I have never needed to put a new LP seat in any Conshelf made after 1975.....there are no other parts in the 2nd stage kit that are needed.
Total cost (retail) from my local shop is less than $20.
I will not need to buy any more parts for at least 5 years.
jjjjeremy
Contributor
Yeah, I was just giving an example of how it might come out. I'm not servicing everything every year. Just running checking with an IP gauge and doing visual inspections for corrosion.
On a side note since you're familiar with the regulator series, and I'd hate to thread jack, the conshelf 22s have a side port for fitting a screwdriver in to adjust the 2nd stage. Is there a drop in part that fits here which could adjust the 2nd stage on the fly?
On a side note since you're familiar with the regulator series, and I'd hate to thread jack, the conshelf 22s have a side port for fitting a screwdriver in to adjust the 2nd stage. Is there a drop in part that fits here which could adjust the 2nd stage on the fly?
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