Hi from a new desert scuba diver-in-training with gear questions :)

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scubadudeaz

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Phoenix, AZ
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Hi! I'm pretty new to scuba diving - my only experience so far is an introduction to scuba dive off of Catalina Island at Camp Emerald Bay with my son who's a Boy Scout. We're both great swimmers and love the water, and we loved that experience so we're working on an Open Water certification right now.

We completed the online training this past weekend, and are getting ready to do the pool portion and the open water portion in Lake Pleasant.

We headed down to the dive shop and had them look at the gear we already had. We each have a 7/5 wetsuit and they said those were good. They took one look at our 'us divers' mask, snorkel, and fins and said these were ok for skin diving but not good enough for scuba. This didn't really surprise me, and they recommended a $150 package for my son which has gear that will work but isn't great - but on account of the fact he's growing it would probably be good enough. But then they went and showed me $270 atomic fins, $100-$200 masks, $70 boots, $60 snorkel. So were talking $400-$600 for mask, snorkel, fins, which kind of surprised me. It all looked like serious quality gear so don't get me wrong - for the gear they were selling their prices look good compared to what I'm seeing online. But... I know things aren't cheap but dang.
Wondering what the 'minimum' required level of gear really is for scuba, so I can figure out some sort of middle ground.

Also, I went on craigslist and people are selling full sets of gear (including wet suit, mask, snorkel, fins, bcd, tank, dive knife, etc) for between $500 and $1000 for what they claim is $2,000 to $3000 worth of gear. Looks like I could get a full setup for about the cost of new mask/snorkel/fins! And I can see by the pics that a lot of this gear is in great condition, probably only used a couple times until the person lost interest in scuba. So, I guess I'm wondering what people's experience is with buying used gear. I figure even if some of it isn't up to snuff I'll still have most of what I need and can purchase any missing or bad pieces new or what not.

Anyway, those questions were what brought me to this forum and I'm sure they're not unique. Was very happy to find this place and get plugged into this awesome dive community. Looking forward to meeting you in the water :)
 
The margins on items like masks, fins and snorkels are HUGE, so it is in the dive shop's best interest to sell you the most expensive stuff they have.

Masks have to fit, and you have to pay whatever it costs to buy one that does. An ill-fitting mask is both a stressor and reduces the enjoyment of the dive. To check mask fit, place the mask on your face, hold your breath, and press gently on the mask until a little air is exhausted. When you release it, the mask should remain in place for some time, so long as you don't breathe out through your nose. If you take the tack of sucking in instead, you can make many masks "fit" that will leak underwater.

You will use a snorkel very little while diving -- some people don't even carry them on their masks (or at all), switching to a roll-up snorkel they can carry in a pocket instead. My personal feeling is that all the bells and whistles on a snorkel add very little but additional cost.

Fins are a hotly debated item. Shops love to sell the newest, "hi-tech" fins, with weird shapes and bright colors and all kinds of claims for increased efficiency and reduced effort. In fact, if you have reasonably strong legs, a simple paddle fin will do very well. I have a pair of Deep See Pulses that sell, if I recall correctly, for about $40 on line. They're not great fins, and they're too floppy for me for open water, but I have dived with them, and they do work. I just don't like them as much as stiffer fins I own.

Shops love to push split fins, telling divers that they won't get cramps and they won't work as hard. In fact, they're very easy to kick, but that's about their only big selling point. However, read some threads here -- there are people who absolutely LOVE them, and people who don't.

There is a ton of information here in the equipment subforums, where just about every piece of scuba gear by type, brand, color and size has been debated. It's well worth spending some time looking around there, and check out threads like, "What did you buy that you regret?" to get an idea of what people wish they hadn't acquired.

Just don't get rid of your wife as a result of reading that thread, though . . . :)
 
Buy the cheapest most basic snorkel you can find. A simple J tube works well. I sell one that retails for 14.99 and is what I use for pool and classes and what I will now be advising my students to buy. 6 mm boots? 24.99 retail and not junk. Fins for 45.00 and 55.00 basic and will work. Would I use them for tech dives? No. But open water? All day long. All of them will work and with reasonable care last years. Masks are another matter as they have to fit. But TS&M is right. The mark up on many is huge and if you look at say an Oceanic and a ScubaMax there are a bunch that are the same mask. The difference is the price and badge. Except for a few companies like Atomic and Apollo that do make masks that are their own, there are two or three companies in Taiwan that make the majority of masks for most of the companies out there. I sell masks that range from 25.00 to 40.00 and are of equal quality to those costing 3 to 4 times that. And equal in that they are the same mask. My most popular ones that fit the most people are 24.99 and 39.99. And they last.

Ask the shop to show you a name brand and a brand like a Scubamax that look the same (they likely are). Try them on and buy the one that fits. It may be a $100 mask is the one. But unless you have a seriously weird face you'll very likely be able to find one that works for under 50 bucks. The one shop I contract with for pool use has one of every mask they sell in the pool so that you can try before you buy in the water. And I will always take down a few that I carry. I don't care if they buy from me. I want them to get the one that works and 99% of the time it is one the other shop carries and not mine. And that's cool as long as it works.

There is no reason to spend more than say $200 bucks starting out and if you buy used fins, WHICH IS FINE, and even a used snorkel you'll save even more. And FYI, You are likely going to end up with that snorkel mostly living in your gear bag. You are learning to scuba dive, not snorkel. Tell them that.
 
Thanks so much for the detailed reply!

Reading that post, it's awesome.

So, one question I have is - is there any reason that I can't use the 'snorkeling' mask/snorkel/fins i have for my pool dive, or even for my open water training dive. This is what I have:

Amazon.com: U.S. Divers Adult Cozumel Mask/Seabreeze II Snorkel/Proflex Fins/Gearbag: Sports & Outdoors

I guess the mask is not ok because it's not tempered glass. But the fins ... sure they're not advanced but I'm an *excellent* swimmer and am not sure how much of a difference expensive fins would make in the short term (long term I definitely plan to buy great fins).

From what I'm reading, there doesn't seem to be any reason that i'd need a new snorkel as those aren't really used much anyway. Is there any reason a snorkel like this wouldn't be acceptable?
 
The snorkel is fine. You DO want tempered glass for a mask.

I'm familiar with this set, because our shop sells it to our snorkeling class students. The blade on the fin is quite short and the fin is not very stiff. It's designed to move someone fairly slowly on the surface, wearing no equipment. It's not going to be very satisfactory at all for propelling a diver underwater, with the increased mass and resistance that comes with dive gear.

Used fins are a good buy -- there's not much you can wear out on a fin, except the straps. And the first thing you ought to do with any fins, once you finish your class, is put spring straps on them!

I looked up the Deep See Pulse fins I was talking about, and LeisurePro has them for 44.95. The Dive Right EXPs I use are $129.95, but they come with spring straps. There is really NO reason to spend more than that for fins. Dive Right In Scuba has the Edge Expedition fins for $55.00, but they don't come with spring straps; the HOG fins that do are 99.00.

You might want to take some of this information back to your shop and ask them about less expensive options. Shops don't make much money at all on classes, so they depend on gear sales, which is something I don't actually mind. But when they are trying to extract the maximum amount from an unaware student without selling them anything that is going to be better for them in the long run, I find it offensive.
 
Snorkel fine. Mask no if it;s not tempered glass and if you haven't tried on even a cheap dive quality mask you'll likely be surprised at how much more comfortable the skirt is and how much better it fits. The fins? Nah. Ok for surface stuff but as TS&M said, not good for scuba. You have to move too much more mass.

Not to mention that you are going to find out that boots are your friend and open heel fins a better choice. Closed heels will work in some cases but you can't walk in them and there may be times you're climbing over sharp rock or walking over very hot sand. With 60 pounds or more of gear on your back. Open heel fins and boots. Fins like these would work:
Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services
or these
Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services

Not crazy expensive and a good starter fin for scuba. Good for snorkeling as well.
 
The mask and snorkel will be fine, although you will want some longer fins for the pool..those seem kinda stubby.

You could get an old used pair of "large" Jet Fins (harhar, they're more like a medium-small) for about $30.
 
Those fins are full-foot fins. Only good for warm water because they're either worn barefoot or with dive socks. You're going to want 5-7MM boots at Pleasant and those require open heel fins. But not $270 Atomics. The Atomics are nice fins but they're way more than you need now. A decent split-fin is around $100 now. And you may find you're more comfortable with a paddle fin - which can be even less. Depends on the type of diving you plan to do.

For your son, you might want to go less expensive since he's going to grow out of gear quickly. Something like a Tusa Liberator or Aeris Mako, both available online in multiple sizes under $60. Or whatever they're selling you is probably fine also. Realistically your gear shouldn't cost much more than his - fins are priced the same across sizes.

The mask you linked to says Tempered on the face so if it fits well, it's fine. Or it may be good enough to get you thru the class. A softer skirted mask will be more comfortable and possibly slightly easier to manipulate during your class drills so you may want to upgrade that. But not to a $200 mask. A good mask locally is $60-80. It's the one thing I recommend you buy in a shop so you can try it on. The basic theory is put it on your face and lightly inhale - if it stays in place (no strap) it's a contender. Silicone, softer skirts, adjustable straps etc. are options.

Where are you shopping? PM me off-line with the name (although I'm pretty sure I know who it is..) and the general area you live in - I'm in Glendale - and I'll give you some better recommendations of places to go look. I've been diving for 3 decades locally and I know almost all the shops pretty well...

I have $100 fins, a $70 mask and a $15 snorkel. It keeps dry-rotting before I use it so every 5 years I spend $15 on another one. Mostly it rides along in my bag - I use it for snorkeling between dives very infrequently. But you do need one for class - the one you have will be fine though.

There's also an active group of local divers here in the Southwestern forum and Arizona Scuba is another local board. Lots of Lake Pleasant divers are on both - I'm not one of them, water's too cold...lol.
 
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Thanks guys. I'm not so cheap that I don't want to buy good gear. I imagine that eventually like most of the guys here I'll end up spending waaaay too much cash on good gear :) Just don't want to blow all my cash on unnecessarily expensive stuff. Really appreciate the recommendations here, sounds like I can get some great gear for less than I thought.
 

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