LED Primary lights?

[kidspot]

I recently heard that some new LED cannister lights were becoming available that came close to rivalling HID ... anyone have info on these?

Aloha, Tim

 

[Halthron]

I haven't seen any but my first query would be how the comparision is done. Pure output or capabilities with the light. Until an LED canister that can be used for signaling comes out, HIDs aren't dead yet.

 

[alo100]

I recently heard that some new LED cannister lights were becoming available that came close to rivalling HID ... anyone have info on these?

Aloha, Tim

Hi Tim, I chatted with Green Force (Greg) about the possibility of using more high output LED arrays (> 3) and they told me that it can be done, of course they have their multiple light heads already, but now that they considering using LED's with higher output. Later, I found a review at rebreather world talking about a light with 7 LED's already. Output close to the Cannon 10W.
Later on, I sent Greg a pointer about the 200 lumens/W LED's.... do not know if it is suitable for making dive light.

http://www.physorg.com/news4538.html

 

[kidspot]

I found the article referencing them - second to the last paragraph of this article http://www.safecavediving.com/equipment.htm

12* light beam (little wide for signalling) and similar output to an 18W HID. The manufacturer is Solus.

 

[alo100]

Would Ostar be the target for the next generation LED dive light?

1x3 cm, 700mA, 200 lumens/W, 50000 hrs average life.

On a Maserati, last year at Geneva Auto Show

http://www.osram.com.tw/promo/images/PR_Maserati_front.gif



p.s. I posted this in another forum. Let me do some disclaim, I don't sell any light
Then I think it's a good thing, more selection, e.g. The cost of one LED is << $130
Second, we can always have 30-35W HID available, as I can see from the DIY forum... well pushing the battery technology too, which is good.

 

[Metalsub USA]

I found the article referencing them - second to the last paragraph of this article http://www.safecavediving.com/equipment.htm

12* light beam (little wide for signalling) and similar output to an 18W HID. The manufacturer is Solus.

Hi kidspot,

Metalsub makes a 15 Watt LED head for our XL7.2 light that is almost as bright as a 10 Watt HID. The 15 Watt LED head puts out 437 Lumens at 5500° where a 10 Watt HID puts out 450 Lumens 6000°. Downside is that it also is a 12° spot, not the best for signaling but it'll take a beating way better than an HID. When better LEDs come out, we'll make new heads that uses them!!!

The XL7.2 with a 20 watt Xenon head and the 15 Watt LED head has a retail price of $559.90 take a look: http://www.metalsub.nl/eng/tech_1b.asp

If you really want to signal take a look at our 50 Watt HID light with a 10° spot. When your putting out 5000 Lumens of HID power you don't need a 6° spot )

http://www.metalsub.nl/eng/tech_3b.asp

 

[kidspot]

yeah - I'd say that's a good start. I didn't realize anyone had a 15watt LED out yet. I assume that is a an array of 3 5watt LED's?

Thanks for the info - it's good to see a company working in that direction. Won't be long before you have a cannister version available I'm sure.

Aloha, Tim

 

[alo100]

Just wanted to share a pointer:
10W HID on the left, Solus LED array (SU-500, 7 LED's) on the right:
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photopost/data/515/SSP_02.jpg

7 LED light head Solus (rebreatherworld mentioned it's 6, is it? I roughly calc the output, maybe it should be 7?)
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photopost/data/515/SSP_06.jpg

Someone mentioned besides the SU-250 (3 LED), SU-500 (7 LED) there is a SU-750 already (i.e. 750 lumens, the number follows the lumens value), but I haven't found the picture yet.


What so interesting is beyond what we can see about the current LED's dive lights (Solus or other similar products) but the speed of growth of this particular branch of technology...

Hmm.... 70 lumens/W -> 120 lumens/W -> 200 lumens/W -> .....

 

[Metalsub USA]

yeah - I'd say that's a good start. I didn't realize anyone had a 15watt LED out yet. I assume that is a an array of 3 5watt LED's?

Thanks for the info - it's good to see a company working in that direction. Won't be long before you have a cannister version available I'm sure.

Aloha, Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes, Metalsub has been make and selling the 15 Watt LED in Europe since the end of 2005. Your assumption is almost right, we actually use 6 Luxeon Star 3 watt LEDs but instead of burning them at 18 watts we powered the head down to 15 watts. You will be asking yourself, “why in the world we would power down the light head?” The long answer is very technical but the short answer is it allowed us to maximize lumens per watt output, reduced heat output, and extend the LED chip life, all pluses for the diver using the light!!!!

High output LEDs produce a lot of heat, 1 watt LEDs and above must have heat sinks, and excess heat degrades the LEDs light output over the life of the chip. LED lights are still not as efficient as HID lights at converting Watts to Lumens, the best commercially produced white LEDs only output 50 Lumens per watt where the best HIDs crank out 100 Lumens per watt (see our HID200).

HID technology is also getting better so I think it’s going to be a long time before LEDs will replace the 24 to 50 watt HID market in dive lights. However, LEDs are now replacing the 10 watt HID market and are taking over the backup dive light category.

 

[alo100]

I was kind of surprised too when I heard that LED are using heat sink, not the type of LED display people used to see. Are we going to have useful LED dive lights? It depends on how the semiconductor technology is moving e.g. different kinds of dopants etc. When we heard that heat, UV are being generated instead of visible light, it means that part of the energy is lost already with respect to dive light application. Although the high output LED's are not "as realiable as" the old ones, we can still see that the auto industry is trying to use the LED for signal lights, plus, as a matter of fact, we are having LED traffic lights already, at least I can see that in CA. That means the reliability is somewhat under control, depends on how we use it; another question to ask maybe is this: do we see more luxeon burned out than HID? This should give us an idea at least for now.

About HID light, I was actually surprised about the reliability for many of them, as some experts here reminded, we are not having bulbs which are dedicated for dive lights application, I think this is a significant point. It reflects how much we have done already in building our dive lights today, and where we can go tomorrow; factors like, the cost of replacing light bulbs, having the light burn out at the middle of a dive etc. These are all major concerns for HID light users, and people who are considering using HID to be their next. When I observe that HID being used in automobile is not having the same issue, I start to think that there must be something the manufacturers can do about it. This issue is very very important, because as we push from 18W to 35W or 50W, the heat dissipation would only be worse. This is a common problem for HID and high output LED.

Let me branch off for a bit, for the semiconductor industry, the most common type of heat sink is what we can see on the back of a chip package over a pc board, for example -- a metal piece sicked on the back of a chip package. Besides that, there is another type: fluid cooled heat sink, it's one step further than the pure metal heat sink -- more effective, but the manufacturing cost is much higher, therefore people would not use it unless they have to. Now, our application is dive light and sea water is all around, so there is a very high chance that we can change the structure of the light or the material used to facilitate.