Heatsinks

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Paladin4Christ

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Scuba Instructor
Messages
13
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1
Location
Whidbey Island, Washington
# of dives
100 - 199
I have searched and searched the interwebs and this forum and yet cannot find the info.

Where can I get a heatsink capable of fitting inside of a Maglite that can dissipate heat from a CREE XPG2 3-up LED star running 12v and pulling 1400mA?

I found one on LEDSupply.com but it is 1.5" in diameter and it won't fit in a Maglite.
 
I have searched and searched the interwebs and this forum and yet cannot find the info.

Where can I get a heatsink capable of fitting inside of a Maglite that can dissipate heat from a CREE XPG2 3-up LED star running 12v and pulling 1400mA?

I found one on LEDSupply.com but it is 1.5" in diameter and it won't fit in a Maglite.

Have you considered mechanically coupling the assembly to the body of the Maglite? Some sort of flexible metal fins (I'm thinking spiraled like a filter) that would make contact with the inside of the tube. . .

That's a lot of current, what do you intend to use as a battery?
 
Why do you need one?

Just because something gets hot doesn't mean it's a problem....

What makes you think that it will generate so much heat that it will burn itself out? Have you checked the maximum operating temperature and compared that to what it can generate during a dive?

R..
 
Why do you need one?

Just because something gets hot doesn't mean it's a problem....

What makes you think that it will generate so much heat that it will burn itself out? Have you checked the maximum operating temperature and compared that to what it can generate during a dive?

R..

I thought the same thing. Originally I thought about putting in a smaller heatsink (mainly to mount the LED Star and optic to) and relying on the ~50 degree water to cool it.

How would I calculate the heat that would be generated during the dive? I'm looking at using the 3-up LED star with Cree XPG2 LED's.
Here is the link: Cree XPG2 - Indus Star 3-Up Cool-White High Power LED

The heat sink I was looking at getting was this: LED Housing - 3-Up LED Heatsink
The customer support person said I needed this: LED Light Housing - 15-Watt

Thoughts?

---------- Post added November 22nd, 2013 at 10:50 AM ----------

Have you considered mechanically coupling the assembly to the body of the Maglite? Some sort of flexible metal fins (I'm thinking spiraled like a filter) that would make contact with the inside of the tube. . .

That's a lot of current, what do you intend to use as a battery?

I'm looking at a NIMH 12v 4500mA battery.
 
Hi Chris, We did one more dive today in the current at Keystone before heading home. 1400ma is 1.4 amps times 12 volts is under 17 watts. Part of that will go to light and not to heat in the housing. I'm pretty sure if you sink the heat to an aluminum housing you won't notice the heat when you hold in in 50 deg water.

Brian
 
Hi Chris, We did one more dive today in the current at Keystone before heading home. 1400ma is 1.4 amps times 12 volts is under 17 watts. Part of that will go to light and not to heat in the housing. I'm pretty sure if you sink the heat to an aluminum housing you won't notice the heat when you hold in in 50 deg water.

Brian

Hey Brian! I hope you had a great time on our side of the mountains! I wish the weather could have been warmer but hey, you take what you can get this time of year!

Thank you for the help. I will try what you suggest and just use the aluminum housing as the heat sink!

I look forward to diving with you, Mark and Sandi again soon! Perhaps a dip at the Skyline Wall, in Anacortes, will be in order next time!

Christopher
 
Sounds like you're on the right track, but I just wanted to clarify for potential future readers that if making/retrofitting an existing metal-bodied light, the only way to shed heat is through the light body and into the water. The goal of the design, then, is to find the most efficient way to transfer this heat from the LED to the light body (which in turn transfers the heat into the water). Any inefficiencies, such as air-gaps, will just cause the insides to heat up.

Metal-to-metal contact is the best way to do this (from the metallic circuit board holding the LEDs to an intermediate piece of metal, and then to the light body itself). Here's what I did when replacing the HID with an LED in my dive light: (Disclaimer: I'm an electrical design dork)

components-final.jpg

The silver thing in the bottom centre is a round piece of aluminium (wrapped in aluminium-tape to bring it up to the correct diameter for a snug fit in the light body), which I screwed the LED board onto (on the left). The driver is on the right, cheaply held on by electrical tape :D . I used thermal-paste between connections to reduce thermal resistance further.

The XP-G2 LED itself is rated for 150 degrees maximum, the driver components probably less. Realistically, you can drive things hot, and may never notice the effects like reduced light output, reduced life-span (which could still be longer than you'd use the light for anyway). It's easy to do an insufficient job of it, which can cause you to blow past these thermal limits (i.e. if you turn those LEDs on at maximum current with the PCB sitting in air, they'll burn out, very fast). However, it's also very easy to "overkill" the thermal design, as I did above for at least the LED portion, and then you get great performance and don't have to worry.
 
Sounds like you're on the right track, but I just wanted to clarify for potential future readers that if making/retrofitting an existing metal-bodied light, the only way to shed heat is through the light body and into the water. The goal of the design, then, is to find the most efficient way to transfer this heat from the LED to the light body (which in turn transfers the heat into the water). Any inefficiencies, such as air-gaps, will just cause the insides to heat up.

Metal-to-metal contact is the best way to do this (from the metallic circuit board holding the LEDs to an intermediate piece of metal, and then to the light body itself). Here's what I did when replacing the HID with an LED in my dive light: (Disclaimer: I'm an electrical design dork)

View attachment 171766

The silver thing in the bottom centre is a round piece of aluminium (wrapped in aluminium-tape to bring it up to the correct diameter for a snug fit in the light body), which I screwed the LED board onto (on the left). The driver is on the right, cheaply held on by electrical tape :D . I used thermal-paste between connections to reduce thermal resistance further.

The XP-G2 LED itself is rated for 150 degrees maximum, the driver components probably less. Realistically, you can drive things hot, and may never notice the effects like reduced light output, reduced life-span (which could still be longer than you'd use the light for anyway). It's easy to do an insufficient job of it, which can cause you to blow past these thermal limits (i.e. if you turn those LEDs on at maximum current with the PCB sitting in air, they'll burn out, very fast). However, it's also very easy to "overkill" the thermal design, as I did above for at least the LED portion, and then you get great performance and don't have to worry.

I like this design and just for full disclosure, I will probably "borrow" it!

Thank you for the help.
 
i read somewhere that filling the inside with 100% mineral oil would help with the thermal transfer as well ?
 
Mineral oil will help with heat transfer (in fact, it's used for that particular purpose in some applications like high voltage transformers), but the downside is that it's not that much more thermally conductive (at ~.13 to .16 W/mK from what I can find online) than air (0.24 W/mK), so may not be efficient enough to transfer heat away from a hot LED to keep it from burning out -- I'm not sure, to be honest, I would have to math it out.

For comparison, aluminium has a thermal conductivity of ~200 W/mK, so would be far more efficient at pulling heat away from the LED -- The big slug of aluminium I use in my light keeps everything surprisingly cool.

One caveat to the above point is that there's a relatively inefficient joint between the aluminium heat sink and the aluminium-backed LED PCB, and then from the aluminium heatsink to the light body due to the fact that there will always be tiny gaps, but that can be mitigated by using a good quality thermal paste at those interfaces -- Mineral oil wouldn't suffer from air gap issues.

The other catch is that it might effect the beam itself, since there will be a different index of refraction and beam-angle between the LED and collimator (or lens)

Interestingly, though, mineral oil has a strong use in under-water applications for replacing air in enclosures, in order to to pressure-proof them. :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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