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MexicoTraveling to Cancun, Cozumel, Akumal, Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, Riviera Maya, Playa del Carmen, Ixtapa or another local island? Want to find out more about that dream vacation? Well, it's all here so come, join us!
since you put it that way, let's compare some figures... let's use Detroit for this little experiment..
in 2007, there were over 421 murders, 592 rapes, (and just to save some time) over 21,000 violent crimes reported... and that is just one city.. with a population of under 1,000,000 people (source:Table 4, Index Page, Preliminary Annual UCR, January-December 2006,). you want to talk about a dangerous place? I guess some Americans are great at pointing fingers at other countries problems, but when it comes to domestic issues not so much... After all, "America is #1!", right?
This isn't really a valid argument. I volunteered to work with kids in Detroit for a few weeks a few years ago in one of the worst neighborhoods there. A guy got stabbed right in front of where I was staying, and I was out there with a first aid kit and an off duty officer while an ambulance was 2 blocks away who couldn't come in without a police escort because it was so bad. However, we know detroit is bad. It's largely a socio-economical issue up there. It's repeatedly ranked as one of the worst cities in decline here. It's also not a tourist place or a place that pretty much anyone puts on their list of places to visit. It's not our shining example of a city but it's not complete chaos there either. It's a lot of individuals doing bad things but there are a lot of other individuals fighting hard to stop it and get the city back on it's feet. They draw a line as communities and fight it, not just trying to survive.
Mexico isn't complete chaos either, just some areas at the moment. However, I think the comment "Mexico is Mexico..." wasn't totally wrong. I know those of you that live in Mexico took it very insultingly. But culturally and socially we are all very different as countries and even parts of countries. Los Angeles is Los Angeles. That means in L.A. I expect to have to drive, not get anywhere with public transportation, have weather that's, warm, hot, and melting. That Compton or East LA is generally unsafe and that Rodeo Drive is ridiculously expensive. In New York I would expect that I wouldn't want a car, could get anywhere with public transportation, that there's a higher chance than I'm comfortable with that I'll get mugged if I walk through certain parts of the city at night, and that if I don't pay attention while walking across the streets, someone may hit me with their car. You can use this in almost anywhere in a comparative or even objective sense. Africa is Africa, Bhutan is Bhutan etc etc. There are certain things that people will expect and be more wary or aware of wherever they are from countries to cities in those countries. In Mexico, certain crime rates are higher than the U.S. Murders are 3 times more prevalent as are robberies (according to the U.N.). Anyone going to Mexico from Northerly countries across the globe get warned about certain things, to be careful of certain things, don't drink the water etc etc. And if you go near the border areas, you get reminded that if you get pulled over to bribe the cop etc etc.
That being said, there are also good things. Obviously people still go. It's not always necessarily cheaper in mexico in the tourist areas. But, Mexico is Mexcio.. you expect warm waters, friendly resorts, Good tequila, good food, a chance to haggle for some well made handmade stuff.. as well as poorly made crap souvenirs. In ANY country where tourism is big business, it's going to be safer than the normal areas. There's a vested interest by local government and they will take extra measures to make sure tourists feel safe and keep coming back with those dollars, euros, yen, won, yuen, and pesos. I'm going to cozumel in January and other than some concern about some of my dive gear getting stolen, I have no concern about my physical safety from sober criminals.... but I wouldn't go to Tijuana right now at all.
Mexico probably is worse than the U.S. in regards to some types of violent crimes. The U.S. produces some of the weirdest serial killers on the planet. The Mexican police is known to be and more likely to be corrupt, the American population is more likely to scape goat immigrants for our problems (I have very strong anti amnesty opinions myself but I'm trying to be objective about this and putting those out of this or my conclusions here). The Mexicans on this board are wrong to accuse our police of being just as bad and the Americans are wrong to believe that we'd be dodging bullets in every part of Mexico. We have more aggravated assaults, they have more robberies.
I guess my point is, in either case, let's try not to vilify entire populations and countries.
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"Be excellent to one another... and... PARTY ON DUDES!!"
I love Mexico. I've been there over twenty times. But a point of fact is Mexico is ranked sixth in the world in murders with .130213 murders per 1000 people. The U.S. is twenty-forth with .042802 per 1000. That's over a three fold increase. That said, I'm planning my next trip to P.D.C.
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Some of you guys take this poop way too seriously. Lighten the F up !!
This member has said "Thank you." to phillyrob for this useful post:
So what about the Police Departments in the US that are under investigation by the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies? I am not talking about BFE South Dakota, I mean Miami, LA, Detroit, etc... all big cities, huge crime problems, huge corruption issues, but no, when someone mentions Mexico, then all hell breaks loose.. I'll tell you what, if you're so afraid to come to Mexico because of the "unstoppable, hair-raising, willies giving violence", then stay home and don't bash MY COUNTRY just because Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh think its cool to do so..
All others are still welcome, and we'll have a cold cerveza when you come down to my neck of the woods.
Not bashing Mexico at all, sorry that you took it that way. If you read Calderon's State of the Union paper delivered yesterday, he has similar views. The situation is bad right now, and getting worse, but now nearly as dangerous as 14 years ago.
There is obviously corruption in every major city/organization, but a full third of the kidnappings in Mexico are committed by the police. As I stated earlier, Mexico takes very good care of its guests because they learned the lesson from Jamaica that the tourists will stop coming if they feel uneasy.
I really do understand that folks who live in an area, where virtually the sole source of income is derived from tourism, get very touchy when crime is mentioned. Saying everything is sunshine and lolly pops will not address the problem that there is currently a turf war being fought over control of drug distribution, its been going on for years, and is getting more violent. I am not bashing Mexico, just objectively stating the truth.
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"Those who do not use local guides are unable to obtain the advantages of the ground." - Sun Tzu
This member has said "Thank you." to driftwood for this useful post:
i don't think that 'completely compromised' is an exaggeration at all. The zeta's were originally organized from the ranks of the mexican security forces. Instead of just taking bribes from the traffickers, they decided to go into competition with them.
The mexican police operate on a patronage system rather than the civil service system we are familiar with. When you combine that with extremely low pay, you will always get massive levels of corruption. Today the money is in drugs and kidnappings. Won't stop me from going to mexico a couple times a year. I stay in the main tourist areas and know i am perfectly safe.
zetas is an organization that came mostly from the kaibiles who are guatemalan special army forces super trained, also from mexican army. They were the armed part of the gulf cartel, most the cartels several years ago became "la comitiva" and they all agreed to operate on different states and there was peace, then a couple of years ago, the zetas started war with the pelones (razorheads) who were the armed part of cartel de sinaloa.
The zetas decided to quit the gulf cartel betrayed the comitiva and started big time war. In our state (quintana roo) they realized there was a lot of $ to be made from taking illegal cubans to usa, they brought them on yachts, then took them to the state of yucatan, then somehow to usa from puerto progreso.so a lot of killings started because of the control of who takes the cubans (at about 10000usd per head)to usa.
So the zetas involve the cuban traffic with drugs, and started killing all the small time drug dealers that did not want to sell for them or their drugs, same dealers that also are killed for betraying the other organizations, some police officials have been killed as well for not taking bribes to let them operate. The 12 decapitated were killed by a cell of zetas that was caught. The goverment has acted fast on this contrary to what many would believe. The zetas act all over the country and they have even put out posters inviting exarmy or current army men detailing how they will get paid and you may laugh the great amount of 500usd for 15days of work plus whatever they can get....meaning they send cells of these guys to kill or operate and wherever they go they rob or steal or at big cities kidnap etc. (not tourists) that is basically the story about this war according to mexican government agencies newspapers from everyday.......
That been said i insist......here in cancun and the yucatan peninsula, it is sunshine and lollipops for tourists that come diving it is safe to come if you want to check numbers about the millions of tourists that visit coz cancun and the whole state of quintana roo and yucatan, and even buy property here and come back as much as they can.
Let there be no mistake, there is crime in this country and bad, but it has nothing to do with tourists these things do not happen at hotel zones or dive boats.
Hope this helps and do come visit. Thank you driftwood for making sense in your comment you are aware of what is really going on and thanks for the trust of still come 2 times a year and visit that is great.
Matzatlan is not on the border,(its about 500 km from the border of the US) and has been the recent scene of Death for the 12 year old American boy from El Paso. I have been on the border my entire life. Juarez, Tijuana, Mexicali, Nogales, Laredo ALL used to be "safe"....Then it was just Tijuana, then it was Laredo, Now its Juarez, We've all been told , "stay in the Tourists areas, they are only killing each other". Then they were killing Women by the 100s with no one being caught.Now its not safe to go anywhere in Juarez, Chihuahua city.....So now its moving into the Yucatan, just like it moved into Juarez and Mexicali....
You are right, Many people depend on the Tourist's dollars, they also did in the Tarahumara area, but NO ONE goes there anymore.
Pobre Mexico!! you need to get it together and stop this!! Or you will not have Tourists, just go to Creel and count the number of Americans there...it won't take long
I just returned from a dive trip to Guaymas/San Carlos( Drove down there 288 km) & I knew the dangers. I know people are killing in Imuris and San Miguel and Cananea...but I have always known there are no small problems in Mexico. there are either no problems or BIG problems. This time there were no problems. And like driving through East St Louis, just keep driving, don't stop and leave your $$$, just keep driving...
and know/remember the Police/ military that are stopping you
may really be bandits or worse......
The vast majority will experience no problems, I love Cancun PDC,Akumal, Mahahual I've been to Merida, Progresso, but it is not Disneyland
Last edited by billeelou; September 4th, 2008 at 11:05 AM..
Reason: clarity
We have been to Cozumel many times and always felt safe. I have been to many cites in NY and have felt safe. There are places in Mexico that are not safe as there are cities in the USA that are not safe. We must compare apples to apples.
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Dissent is still the highest form of patriotism
This member has said "Thank you." to deeper thoughts for this useful post:
Matzatlan is not on the border,(its about 500 km from the border of the US) and has been the recent scene of Death for the 12 year old American boy from El Paso. I have been on the border my entire life. Juarez, Tijuana, Mexicali, Nogales, Laredo ALL used to be "safe"....Then it was just Tijuana, then it was Laredo, Now its Juarez, We've all been told , "stay in the Tourists areas, they are only killing each other". Then they were killing Women by the 100s with no one being caught.Now its not safe to go anywhere in Juarez, Chihuahua city.....So now its moving into the Yucatan, just like it moved into Juarez and Mexicali....
You are right, Many people depend on the Tourist's dollars, they also did in the Tarahumara area, but NO ONE goes there anymore.
Pobre Mexico!! you need to get it together and stop this!! Or you will not have Tourists, just go to Creel and count the number of Americans there...it won't take long
I just returned from a dive trip to Guaymas/San Carlos( Drove down there 288 km) & I knew the dangers. I know people are killing in Imuris and San Miguel and Cananea...but I have always known there are no small problems in Mexico. there are either no problems or BIG problems. This time there were no problems. And like driving through East St Louis, just keep driving, don't stop and leave your $$$, just keep driving...
and know/remember the Police/ military that are stopping you
may really be bandits or worse......
The vast majority will experience no problems, I love Cancun PDC,Akumal, Mahahual I've been to Merida, Progresso, but it is not Disneyland
Yeah, I can read a map.
Approx distance from U.S. border
Cananea - 50 miles
Juarez - on the border
Tijuana - on the border
Nogales - on the border
Mexicali - on the border
Chihauhau - 100 miles
Imuris - 50 miles
Tarahumara - 200 miles
Yes, there is violence in Mexico as there is in any country but, again, the VAST MAJORITY of the violence and violent areas you have cited are close to the U.S. border.
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Wherever you go, there you are.
(In other words, no whining!)
hermosillo 200 km
Matzatlan 500 km
Guaymas 290 km
San Carlos 288
*Yucatan 1300+ km... 11 decapitated bodies stacked up....40 miles NE of Merida....on the approx border between Yucatan and Quintana Roo
......., "So now its moving into the Yucatan"
Do you not think it will travel? do you think they will leave the "other areas" alone?
Go, don't go, but Be AWARE- its not a "normal " situation for Mexico\
*Governor Ivonne Garcia, you guys know the Gov.?? said it was the work of the Gulf Cartel out of Matamoros( 300+miles from Brownswood, Tx) and way up the Gulf coast from Quintana Roo
Last edited by billeelou; September 4th, 2008 at 05:32 PM..
hermosillo 200 km
Matzatlan 500 km
Guaymas 290 km
San Carlos 288
*Yucatan 1300+ km... 11 decapitated bodies stacked up....40 miles NE of Merida....on the approx border between Yucatan and Quintana Roo
......., "So now its moving into the Yucatan"
Do you not think it will travel? do you think they will leave the "other areas" alone?
Go, don't go, but Be AWARE- its not a "normal " situation for Mexico\
*Governor Ivonne Garcia, you guys know the Gov.?? said it was the work of the Gulf Cartel out of Matamoros( 300+miles from Brownswood, Tx) and way up the Gulf coast from Quintana Roo
Since you're so afraid of coming to Mexico, then stay the hell out of Mexico.. it's that simple. and by the way, Matamoros is not 300+ miles from BrownsVILLE, Tx. it's less than 5 miles... maybe it's you who should learn to read maps, then start flaming other countries.
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Live and let dive...
Freelance PADI instructor, Cave and Cavern diving guide in Cancun.
This member has said "Thank you." to vrykolakas for this useful post:
Since you're so afraid of coming to Mexico, then stay the hell out of Mexico.. it's that simple. and by the way, Matamoros is not 300+ miles from BrownsVILLE, Tx. it's less than 5 miles... maybe it's you who should learn to read maps, then start flaming other countries.
Yeah, that inspires confidence in the readers...
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You wouldn't think of diving Nitrox without analyzing the O2 content first; why would you trust your life to CO analysis that may have been completed three months ago - IF THEY EVEN DO THAT?! The time, effort, and cost to check each and every cylinder of gas you dive for carbon monoxide is negligible, especially when considering the dire outcome of contaminated dive gas.
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