Cenote Diving and Safety

[decompression]

Well said, Lynne.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has been split off from this one: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/mexico/439307-word-wise-cenote-diving.html

The latter is a sticky, it was getting a bit long, repetitious and rambling, rather defeating the purpose of a sticky. So the sticky has been closed and anyone wanting to continue the discussion can do so here. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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[TSandM]

There was a triple fatality here a couple of months ago, when a cavern guide led two clients into the cave -- nobody's entirely sure what happened, but all of them died. Yet one of my friends here reported seeing a cavern tour, with FIVE clients, go off the cavern line into cave at Taj Maha day before yesterday. It is caveat emptor down here, and it is very important to know who the person you are trusting to lead your tour is, and what their attitude toward safety is.

 

[Grover48]

I dove Tajma Ha and Eden cenotes last month. There were two divers and one guide. I discussed the incident at Chac Mool with the guide. He indicated that there had been violations of basic safety protocols. At no time did he offer to take us beyond the sign marking the cave portion.

I too remind visitors that you have the right and responsibility to yourself and your loved ones to thumb any dive at any time you are not comfortable with what is happening.

 

[bigbluemarble]

I too remind visitors that you have the right and responsibility to yourself and your loved ones to thumb any dive at any time you are not comfortable with what is happening.

Cavern guides also state in the pre-dive briefing that all divers on the cavern dive have the right to call the dive at any time. Another important topic in the briefing is air management and using the rule of thirds. Each diver needs to calculate what 1/3 of his or her air is based on the actual amount of air in the tank. Then use 1/3 in, 1/3 out with 1/3 remaining as a reserve.

 

[tstormdiver]

I can't help but wonder.... I am a cave diver & I am an open water instructor (I meet those 2 parts of the criteria), I have not been through any guide training.... but what confuses me, is that I would in no way be comfortable taking divers who have never been in an overhead environment without extensive training (aka becoming a cavern or cave instructor) to be able to deal with any issues that may arise on such dives. Perhaps the guide training offers such instruction on the handling of emergency situations (out of air,panicky divers, equipment failures & such in an overhead environment), to get the divers you are responsible out safely.... I honestly don't know. The one thing I do know about overhead environments, is that when things go wrong, it goes VERY wrong , it usually happens quickly & sometimes violently. Now,... couple that with divers who have never been in an overhead environment, have only a cursary introduction to the procedures, may be frightened or even panicky,.... You getthe drift. I do realize that a lot of times the caverns aren't completely submerged everywhere & I am in no way dissing the safety record of the guides, it is very good, to say the least. But I still can't help wonder why the guides should not be active cavern or cave instructors who are well versed in handling such problems. Don't get me wrong, I am not putting down any of the guides at all,... just wondering & thinking out loud.

 

[techintime]

IMHO the only reason these kind of tours exist in Mexico is because they can. You would never see this practice in any country where the company/guides offering the tours could be held liable when things go south. That should tell you something right there. That said, I prefer personal responsibility over the heavy hand of government or courts, so if someone wants to offer such tours, more power to them. Buyer beware.

 

[boulderjohn]

I did a couple of cenote cavern dives about a decade ago. In comparison to most OW divers, I was pretty experienced--maybe 80 dives. Before I did it, I went to an online discussion forum (Rodale's) to ask if it was safe, and everyone enthusiastically told me things were just fine. In comparison to what I know today, I did not know diddly squat. I did know a lot more than the other people who accompanied me on my dives, though.

Lynne's advice is very good, and I am sure that everyone who reads this thread will be more wary than before. Let's face it though, the people who read this thread represent a miniscule fraction--barely visible on a pie chart--of the people who will consider doing those dives. I think we need to find a way to go beyond an occasional plea on a site like this to a more universal way to help people understand the dangers of different kinds of overhead environments.

---------- Post Merged at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:07 PM ----------

IMHO the only reason these kind of tours exist in Mexico is because they can. You would never see this practice in any country where the company/guides offering the tours could be held liable when things go south. That should tell you something right there. That said, I prefer personal responsibility over the heavy hand of government or courts, so if someone wants to offer such tours, more power to them. Buyer beware.

Are you aware of the cavern dive in Italy this summer in which 4 people, including the guide, died?

 

[TSandM]

John, I know only a fraction of the people who dive read SB. But I felt I had to do something, especially once I heard that, not even two months after the prior accident, guides were again taking people beyond the sign. If this practice becomes widespread, I will change my position on these being reasonable dives for people visiting here to do, which would be sad, because done within the rules, the safety record is amazingly good.

 

[Peter Guy]

And just how often do guides in Hawaii takes OW divers into the lava tubes? It is NOT just here in Mexico where guides take divers into an overhead environment (Florida wrecks?).

We all know there are "easy" overheads and "not so easy" ones. The trick is to come up with a way to categorize them (and I know one person who is trying to do that!).

 

[boulderjohn]

We all know there are "easy" overheads and "not so easy" ones. The trick is to come up with a way to categorize them (and I know one person who is trying to do that!).

And you will help, won't you?

---------- Post Merged at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:01 PM ----------

John, I know only a fraction of the people who dive read SB. But I felt I had to do something, especially once I heard that, not even two months after the prior accident, guides were again taking people beyond the sign. If this practice becomes widespread, I will change my position on these being reasonable dives for people visiting here to do, which would be sad, because done within the rules, the safety record is amazingly good.

I agree. I am just saying that if we want to do something that is effective, we need to get beyond ScubaBoard.