Fellow Diver OOA Incident

[humanFish]

This was a hawaii dive charter. Small group, the DM, myself, and another couple. Before we launched the wife presented her cert card to the DM, along with her printed receipts from DAN. I thought to myself, "Uh oh. Is someone expecting trouble? Or are they just being extra cautious for some reason?" Perhaps I'm superstitious, or jaded, but I've never seen someone present their insurance card to a DM prior to a dive....this may be common practice in some locales...so please set me straight if I mistakenly took this to be a possible indication of trouble. The DM seemed to shrug it off...like "That's good..but I don't need to see that".

The second thing I heard was the the couple just went through a refresher course to update their skills. "OK, at least they've been diving recently and seem to care for their safety", I thought.

We launch the boat and proceed to the first site. We all get in the water. The DM goes down first. Then we descend, exploring some pinnacles and reef formations, checking critters and what not. One thing I notice about the DM, is that she is kinda cruising ahead by herself...so much for her being a good buddy to me. Oh well. The other couple is managing OK, I guess, aside from thrashing their arms around and just generally showing bad form. 15 or 20 minutes into the dive, the male from the couple shows me his air gauge at it reads about 650 psi. At this point we are in about 60fsw, with no current, and the DM is cruising along about 35 feet ahead and not looking back. I think to myself, "Well, this guy needs to either surface and or alert the DM, and then surface". I motion for him to go catch the DM, then I motion for him to just surface. He more or less shrugs and continues on after the DM. 3 minutes later he reaches her at the ascent line and she immediately shoves her octo is his mouth and up the line the three of them go without a safety stop. I watch from the bottom of the line in abot 35 of water...the DM comes right back down and we continue to breath down our air and explore, then do a safety stop and surface.

Back on the boat there was no mention of him being OOA by anyone. Not sure if he breathed his tank empty or not. During the surface interval on shore his wife complains of minor motion sickness and opts out of the second dive. The three of us head back out. I'm thinking "This guy is a hoover but hopefully he learned a valuable lesson and will not go OOA again." needless to say, the DM and I kept a close eye on him this time. 15 minutes into the dive he motions to the line and is on his way. We hang out close by during his stop and then continue on our way when he has surfaced.

So, I am curious about many things:

1) What's up with DM's that seem to be solo divers with the "Just follow me" approach. In other words, what good is a DM if you can't even get their attention. I've seen about 15% of DM's that seem to act like this.

2) Should I have reacted differently when he showed me his guage? In essence, I gave him two options and let him make the call. I did keep a close eye on him...and close proximity. His wife/buddy was with him the whole way.

3) Should the DM have lectured him and his buddy? Should she have lectured me? Should we have lectured her?

4) Should he have been allowed on the second dive?

5) Even though I was perfectly comfortable waiting on the bottom with 1400psi in my tank, should I have ascended the line as well? I am certainly guilty of wanting to get my money's worth. A poor decision?

In hindsight, I feel I should have been more insistent that he start his ascent. I feel bad for not have taken a more proactive approach....Your comments, criticisms are welcomed and appreciated...

 

[ScubaFreak]

Just a few observations...

Back on the boat there was no mention of him being OOA by anyone.

He only really needs to discuss it with his buddy. Although since you were the one he showed his depleting air gauge to, he should have spoken to you about what happened, and possibly how it could be avoided in the future. But i'm confused why he didn't show his own buddy :06:

1) What's up with DM's that seem to be solo divers with the "Just follow me" approach. In other words, what good is a DM if you can't even get their attention. I've seen about 15% of DM's that seem to act like this.

Lots of DM's act like this, because they aren't responsible for the divers, they are just responsible for diving on ahead and bringing you on a tour. Unfortunately, in my opinion, I feel that A DM should do more than this, and I have known a good few that are quite observant, and a pleasure to dive with both as a buddy and a guide.

2) Should I have reacted differently when he showed me his guage? In essence, I gave him two options and let him make the call. I did keep a close eye on him...and close proximity. His wife/buddy was with him the whole way.

You can only react as much as your experience allows you to. If it was me, i'd have brought him to the surface straight away, as it would avoid the need for sharing air.

3) Should the DM have lectured him and his buddy? Should she have lectured me? Should we have lectured her?

Considering you were all involved, a quick chat about what happened may have been a good idea.

4) Should he have been allowed on the second dive?

He obviously didn't get a fright after the first incident, so he saw no reason not to dive, although this time you were his buddy. Regardless what had or hadn't been already discussed regarding the earlier dive, it was now your responsibility to bring it up, ensuring that it wouldnt happen this time round. Could have been mentioned briefly while you guys did a buddy check. Agreed that once you hit 1500psi (for example) you start your ascent.

5) Even though I was perfectly comfortable waiting on the bottom with 1400psi in my tank, should I have ascended the line as well? I am certainly guilty of wanting to get my money's worth. A poor decision?

Sounds to me like it was just an unfortunate situation. Of course you'd like your moneys worth, butyou seem like the kind of diver who cares for other peoples well being. Good trait to have. So well done

Hope this helps a little!

Scubafreak

 

[humanFish]

But i'm confused why he didn't show his own buddy :06:

He did show it to his buddy. Both of them cruised up to me and he's pointing at his guage....

I'm thinking, "yeah, ok, your dive is over...so surface"

You can only react as much as your experience allows you to. If it was me, I'd have brought him to the surface straight away, as it would avoid the need for sharing air.

So because he and his buddy showed me his guage it would somehow have made me responsible for him/them? This is a serious question...as I am still somewhat baffled by the situation.

Considering you were all involved, a quick chat about what happened may have been a good idea.

I agree with you. I guess I felt maybe it was the DM's place and not mine. It's like when I get paired up on the golf course I'm not about to tell someone what club to use... Being that he was gonna dive again I can see how this conversation should have happened. Thanks for underscoring this point.

thanks for all your comments. They are certainly appreciated.

 

[ScubaFreak]

I'm thinking, "yeah, ok, your dive is over...so surface"

my thoughts exactly, but the buddy pair obviously wasn't sure what to do, so maybe they went to you for advice?![/quote]

So because he and his buddy showed me his guage it would somehow have made me responsible for him/them? This is a serious question...as I am still somewhat baffled by the situation.

Sorry I didnt mean that it made you responsible, I was just trying to point out, that depending on your experience (and your attitude) you could have re-acted in a different way. An inexperienced OW diver would have possibly shrugged their shoulders and continued diving, whereas I as an instructor, would have helped them start an ascent- you can take the boy out of teaching mode but you cant take taching mode out of the boy

SF

 

[humanFish]

my thoughts exactly, but the buddy pair obviously wasn't sure what to do, so maybe they went to you for advice?!

Sorry I didnt mean that it made you responsible, I was just trying to point out, that depending on your experience (and your attitude) you could have re-acted in a different way. An inexperienced OW diver would have possibly shrugged their shoulders and continued diving, whereas I as an instructor, would have helped them start an ascent- you can take the boy out of teaching mode but you cant take taching mode out of the boy

SF[/QUOTE]

OK. Gotcha. I was thinking maybe that was the instructor voice talking. But I see your point. I guess I could have started them up on their way. At least I'll know for next time.

thanks again.

 

[pilot fish]

This is not your fault. It seems this DM had her head up her butt. What I think you should have done when he showed you the gauge is tell BOTH of them to head to the surface. I would not have dove with him on the second dive but told the DM to find out what happened. You were being too nice but I do know how that kind of thing can happen. Being as bad as he was, he could have hurt YOU on the second dive.

You also should have had a talk with the DM and asked her, what she thought was going on and what SHE was going to do about it. I would say that diver was putting others and himself at risk.

BTW, it is not customary to show your insurance to any DM on the boat.

I think you acted very well, given the circumstances.

 

[humanFish]

This is not your fault. It seems this DM had her head up her butt. What I think you should have done when he showed you the gauge is tell BOTH of them to head to the surface. I would not have dove with him on the second dive but told the DM to find out what happened. You were being too nice but I do know how that kind of thing can happen. Being as bad as he was, he could have hurt YOU on the second dive.

You also should have had a talk with the DM and asked her, what she thought was going on and what SHE was going to do about it. I would say that diver was putting others and himself at risk.

BTW, it is not customary to show your insurance to any DM on the boat.

I think you acted very well, given the circumstances.

Next time I'll definately raise an issue. Hopefully, though...there won't be a next time. I'll agree that the DM had her head you know where. Especially since the second dive spot consisted of diving against current and was well beyond his demonstrated experience level. The more I think about it the more I question the judgement of the operator...and my own for not making a big deal about it. lesson learned

 

[ScubaFreak]

This is not your fault. It seems this DM had her head up her butt.

She didn't really pilot fish. She was a guide. Not an instructor. Not a babysitter. She didn't have to monitor his air. It's up to the individual diver to monitor his/her air.

This is the way a lot of DM's work abroad. You follow them, they lead the way to the sights. They organise and ensure people are ready on the boat. DM's in courses and DM's guiding are two very different people....

SF

 

[pilot fish]

Next time I'll definately raise an issue. Hopefully, though...there won't be a next time. I'll agree that the DM had her head you know where. Especially since the second dive spot consisted of diving against current and was well beyond his demonstrated experience level. The more I think about it the more I question the judgement of the operator...and my own for not making a big deal about it. lesson learned

Don't be too hard on yourself. I don't see this as any part your fault but that you were being too nice. I do think that not giving them the tumb when he showed you his gauge was incorrect. This is just another reason I carry a rattle in my BC so I can get someone's attention if I need to, right away.I really find a lot of fault with this dork that calls herself a DM.

This is one of the down sides of diving, getting saddled with someone that can hurt you and dive personnel that don't know squat about what they are supposed to do UW.

 

[BigboyDan]

Question:

What was the psi on his tank guage prior to that first dive?

I'm a DM, and I am NEVER polite about an OOA event. Talk, talk, talk. Everyone should have talked about the event together as a debriefing during the surface interval. Other reasons to talk it over include: Log Book entry information for each diver; a starting point for the second dive plan discussion, dive profile, safety stop requirements, and especially to detemine rock bottom psi (turn around psi point). Sheesh.

Speak up!

Oh, and I am NOT part of that 15%...