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It is sad when people are reluctant to post something valuable we can all learn from because they are concerned about how people will "treat them". I am sorry but it shouldn't make any difference if a person is typing a message into a computer or expressing it in person. Words can cause harm whether they are spoken or typed! I hope you are comfortable posting your story...I hope even more that we can all learn from it without inflicting further pain on you!
Although we're pretty off-topic I'm inclined to agree with matt on the fact that there's a lot of pretty harsh posts on SB toward newbies.
I completely understand where they're coming from, and the desire to raise standards but they're undeniably (and sometimes unnessecarily) harsh.
I've learned a ton from the board, even the not so nice posts. And for me I don't take this stuff personally but I think it does put people off.
I'm usually left wondering why so many people pretend that they were never a noob as if they immediately entered the diving world with perfect buoyancy, trim, situational awareness, and knowledge of decompression theory. Sometimes tough comments are necessary and I'm all for raising the standard (sb has definitely done that for me) but I think that if we expect new people to start diving, then them making mistakes--even stupid ones--is fairly inevitable.
The secret to ScubaBoard's success has been our ability to learn, adapt and evolve when needed. This is the same secret needed to become a great diver. Some people, like myself, are open to criticism while others are not. One of my standing orders to staff is that no criticism leveled towards me needs to be touched: ever. I try to learn from my harshest critics and most endearing fans alike. Sometimes I make mistakes. Scratch that, I OFTEN make mistakes and I try to learn from each and every one of them. I figure I'll stop making mistakes right when I die, so I'm all for continuing the legacy. In that regard, you'll find that I never hold a grudge over someone's criticism of me or ScubaBoard and I never, ever want to discourage people from cluing me in to when I am screwing up. Look at these two threads: Does Peggy Work at your LDS and What would YOU do if the first mate of your charter was a Gilligan. I never IDed either of these shops and you I couldn't believe the difference between the two reactions. Both had people calling them saying that they KNEW it was about them. Was that my fault or their fault for having such a terrible reputation in the first place? The person referenced in the former thread won't talk to me or even look me in the eye any more. The second not only thanked me, but uses this to teach his crew how NOT to treat customers. Which would you rather deal with? Which would you rather be like? What made the difference in their responses? Their attitude towards learning and evolving are diametrically opposed. The sun softens butter but hardens clay. How you respond to criticism, be it harsh or gentle, depends on you and only you. If you really want answers then share your experiences. If you are only looking for a pat on the back, then there are better ways to achieve that. You can choose to be bold or to remain mediocre: it's really entirely up to you.
There are many reasons to post here on ScubaBoard and who's to judge which is best? Some post to inflate their ego, to sell their gear/services, to learn, to teach, to harass or to even celebrate. You can make a decision about what motivates you but not about what motivates others. That doesn't mean you can't inform them how they make you feel, but be cognizant of the fact that you don't get to force your approach to life and forums on others. In the end, you must decide for yourself how you want to be perceived. It's all depends on your ability to develop situational awareness for this or any forum.
However, when a post/thread is in the Green Zone, we expect it to remain ultra friendly and on topic. If a post goes over the top or to the side in that regard, then rather than derail the thread (like has happened here), please use the "Report" button instead, which is found on each and every post here on ScubaBoard. Let's face it, if the criticism is directed at YOU, then you might be a tad over sensitive to anything said if it doesn't fully support your point of view. Once reported, one or more moderators will look at the problematic post with an unjaundiced eye and make a decision about it that is not based on emotion. We want to be friendly, but not at sake of losing our relevance. Reporting posts is the best way to let us know what is and is not acceptable to you here on ScubaBoard. It's why our moderation is reactive rather than proactive. BTW, I am going to report my own post and ask for a general clean up/split of this thread. I try not to moderate threads where I have participated. Hopefully once that is done, we can get back to the OP's topic in one thread and talk about Netiquette in the other!
... so I figured you'd understand I didn't mean you personally, but rather anyone who posts such a criticism.
Yea, just yanking your chain a little, Matt. Hope you don't mind.
Have to agree with much of what you have to say, and of course one has to respect the opinions that your original posting has pulled from the woodwork.
The clear truth has to be that the noise to information ratio on ALL public boards is often high but those of us who participate regularly, and who try to share what experience and little insight we have, keep at it because we know that at somepoint, in one post or another, we will get a point across... a point that may help someone solve a problem, prevent and issue, look at risk management a little harder.
Back in the early 90s I ran a tech diving chat group, it was hard work, and my hat is off to Pete his little band of munchkins here at ScubaBoard for making this site flow the way it does. It ain't perfect because 1) there are arseholes out there who just wanna be difficult 2) a posting can be totally misconstrued 3) the one message that needs to be highlighted gets buried in a bunch of bull****
But the coolest thing is when someone with tonnes of experience posts something that tells us all that THEY learned something... which actually is the main reason some of us still do this teaching gig for a living. Odd, eh?
IMHO I would rather someone be rude and blunt with me like (Like Matt alludes that Doppler or Jim Lapenta would do) than have someone lead me on with kind and gentle words (like Matt proposes). I'll get over hurt feelings... leading me on with kind words leading me to believe I'm a better diver than I am does me no favors and could lead to a disastrous ending.
I did not suggest that anyone give anyone the idea he's a better diver than he is, or to lead him on. You can impart the same information about a person's need to improve without hurting his feelings.
I think idea that you have to hurt someone's feelings to get him to change comes from the military and from the way many coaches teach team sports.
I belong to the local Chamber of Commerce, have for a while. The meetings used to be full of a lot of useful information for business that were new to the area as well as a great networking tool for established ones. I stopped going to the meetings roughly 2 years ago.
I'm not sure exactly when it happened but the meetings seemed to develop a "my dog is bigger than yours" type of mentality mainly due to old school local business guys who refuse to evolve. As it turns out it's their business's that are suffering and the more upbeat current thinking and accepting business's have formed their own network. One that doesn't treat new comers like second class citizens nor do you need to have a d$#k this big to become involved.
Man just look at what some of you have posted in this poor guys post. Time to grow up.
Your right, And I have told my friends to put on SB everything they know if anything ever goes wrong on a dive for me... And now that nobody has blasted me yet, I will be back on here tomorrow telling my story, and I'll also be the one that's gonna keep diving. So everyone will know firsthand what happen to me on SB... One reason this has been so hard on me it happen one week before I was to take my IE, Breaks my heart!! Everything I've put into this, money, time, working out and working two jobs to pay for classes/gear in another 3 states... But anyway what's done is done, right!!! It's late, so I will post on here tomorrow if anybody want's to hear it.... My first 3 post tonight "WoooHooo!!
Well, blamestorming is prohibited here and should be reported more. I'm about to be offline/camping for a few days so I can't report rude posts but I bet some would. We need to stop criticizing mistakes and help each other learn from them. I've had many, personal learning experiences, but try to learn from others'.
Looking forward to your sharing when I get back...!
This is why I read everything, but not post. I have so many questions to ask about something that happen to me Last June on a dive trip in Palm Bch that put me in St. Marys Trauma centr for 9 days. but I know as soon as I put it on here, everyone is gonna call me stupid, and rip me a new xxxhole. Sooo, I'm not telling it!!! Hehehe. And the thing is, I really do need to talk to divers, and maybe even help a few...
PM one of the mods and ask them to post it anonymously for you.
Or just open a sockpuppet account and post it yourself.
Of course, if Scubaboard had an anonymous Accidents and Incidents forum more people might post learning experiences................................