First-hand account of down current, with video footage

[dumpsterDiver]

Analyzing is what we do in this forum. Bob I totally agree with everything you said.

Scurbyduck - nobody can fault you for anything you did and the results, especially since the results were 100% positive! The process of analyzing what happened is like watching video footage with the winner of the Indy 500 and discussing how they could have shaved 4 seconds off their finish time. The long and the short of it is they still won, and the long of the short of it is that your son is alive and well.

So is that the rules in this forum now? Nobody can criticize another diver's actions if the dive results in no death or injury? Are we to ignore the excessive ascent rate, failure to maintain a proximity to a buddy, failure to regulate bouyancy.. etc?

[fjpatrum]

It's easy to quarterback from a keyboard, because the unmanageable run-away ascent wasn't an existing condition to overcome, it was caused by the rescuer, it was a created condition due to using both BCDs instead of one.

Interesting that you mention this. I haven't taken a rescue course yet but during my Nitrox course review the Instructor showed me a video about ox-tox that ended up being more a discussion of generic rescue techniques. The video shows the rescuer "laying on top of" the victim and being slightly negative (I assume probably bad in a down current) and then using the victim's BC for bubble control. Very enlightening video for a newb to see how a rescue "should be done". I would recommend it to anyone. I think it's a 5th dimension video on ox-tox and I know it can be found on youtube...

Watching the incident video from this thread I couldn't tell what the hell was going on other than the diver with the camera didn't look prepared at all to me. Once the diver descended I couldn't tell who was in trouble or who was doing all the screaming. I assume the massive bubbles was the actual ascent and I couldn't tell up from down there...

[NWGratefulDiver]

Interesting that you mention this. I haven't taken a rescue course yet but during my Nitrox course review the Instructor showed me a video about ox-tox that ended up being more a discussion of generic rescue techniques. The video shows the rescuer "laying on top of" the victim and being slightly negative (I assume probably bad in a down current) and then using the victim's BC for bubble control. Very enlightening video for a newb to see how a rescue "should be done". I would recommend it to anyone. I think it's a 5th dimension video on ox-tox and I know it can be found on youtube...

Watching the video I couldn't tell what the hell was going on other than the diver with the camera didn't look prepared at all to me. Once the diver descended I couldn't tell who was in trouble or who was doing all the screaming. I assume the massive bubbles was the actual ascent and I couldn't tell up from down there...

I'd be willing to bet the victim is wearing doubles. That's a standard position in that situation because you can't be behind them ... the tanks won't allow it unless you've got arms like a gibbon.

In an ox-tox situation you don't bring the victim up until the seizure has passed ... doing so would cause barotrauma, as the seizure forces the throat closed and air expansion in the lungs would have no way to escape.

In any rescue situation where one diver is bringing another to the surface, it's preferable to use the victim's BCD for buoyancy control for both divers ... that way if for any reason you have to let go of the victim, they'll go up instead of down.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Mike]

So is that the rules in this forum now? Nobody can criticize another diver's actions if the dive results in no death or injury? Are we to ignore the excessive ascent rate, failure to maintain a proximity to a buddy, failure to regulate bouyancy.. etc?

I don't make any rules, nor would I ever attempt to enforce any.

My statement was just my opinion.

[electrix]

I will be doing my first wall dives next week in Belize I am so glad that in the event that a current tries to take me to Davy Jones Locker that all I have to do is just swim out of it. How hard can that be? I will just look for the signs that point this way out just like exit signs, right?

[InTheDrink]

There's a few distinct strains to this thread. One is ensuring that we are all diving at levels commensurate to our experience, which I applaud and agree with wholeheartedly.

The major point that I take umbrage with however is the fate of the newer diver (as minted at resorts by PADI and their ilk). They do not have the information/experience at their disposal to make a decision as above. They rightly or wrongly really on DMs/professionals for this. Wrongly I would suggest for the divers in this video and the lady that lost her life.

But why would a professional or operator that purports to understand local conditions put novice divers in such potentially risky situations? I had a really boring dive trip/liveabord a couple of years back because a few divers lied about their experience and weren't up to the dives we would have otherwise done. Good call by the DMs. I can't fathom any other reasoning TBH.

For those criticising the divers in the video you are essentially saying that if novices weren't novices then they wouldn't be having novice problems in somewhat challenging conditions. You wish the world was a way it is not. But it is the way it is and as responsible divers we not only have the obligation to help educate other divers but also to hold to account the integrity of operations that knowingly put their customers in harms way.

My $0.02 at least.

John

[DandyDon]

I will be doing my first wall dives next week in Belize I am so glad that in the event that a current tries to take me to Davy Jones Locker that all I have to do is just swim out of it. How hard can that be? I will just look for the signs that point this way out just like exit signs, right?

Yep. Not at all likely in Belize I don't think, but hydrology happens. Good to keep the plan in mind. First thing you do is discuss with your buddy what your plan would be, then stick close to bud, then problem solve. Some would alternately suggest swimming to the wall and working your way up, but I never liked that idea as you are not really out. Some would suggest swimming across the wall as the downwellings are seldom wide at all, but get out - don't try to fight it.

I'll second tigerman.

I'd guess that if you start at the beginning of this thread and list all the tips and information it contains, you'd get a list of a minimum of 20 beneficial pieces of information. Just think the benefit of any diver who reads one of them and it wakes something up inside them.

Yeah, I just played it again. First mistake was Camera Guy entering the water without making sure both buds were ready, then entering without boat and floating away while he waited. He drifted quite a ways from the boat, then descended alone, and so forth. Hey, I was a teen one, even still have some vague memories - not criticizing him, and I've done that myself. Just the first couple of lessons...

[InTheDrink]

Yep. Not at all likely in Belize I don't think, but hydrology happens. Good to keep the plan in mind. First thing you do is discuss with your buddy what your plan would be, then stick close to bud, then problem solve. Some would alternately suggest swimming to the wall and working your way up, but I never liked that idea as you are not really out. Some would suggest swimming across the wall as the downwellings are seldom wide at all, but get out - don't try to fight it.

Yeah, I just played it again. First mistake was Camera Guy entering the water without making sure both buds were ready, then floating away while he waited. He drifted quite a ways from the boat, then descended alone, and so forth. Hey, I was a teen one, even still have some vague memories - not criticizing him, and I've done that myself. Just the first couple of lessons...

Don, just to make a quick point. Frequently in high current negative entries/hot drops are necessary where you meet somewhere below. You often do not drop at the same time.

Your protocol would break down in these not infrequent scenarios.

John

[DandyDon]

Don, just to make a quick point. Frequently in high current negative entries/hot drops are necessary where you meet somewhere below. You often do not drop at the same time.

Your protocol would break down in these not infrequent scenarios.

John

Somewhat true, but a couple of days ago the Mom here mentioned that she was delayed working on her new gear with the captain - the one you see in the gate I think. Camera Guy should have stuck with her until she was good and ready to follow, but he was impulsive. I still can be, but I try to put buddy protocols first.

From a typical Cozumel Panga boat, everyone can roll back in at the same time, altho it usually goes as more of a domino effect - still, very close. They could have back rolled off that larger boat, but that didn't seem to be the standard for it. Newer divers prefer giant strides from gates I guess...

[Splitlip]

There's a few distinct strains to this thread. One is ensuring that we are all diving at levels commensurate to our experience, which I applaud and agree with wholeheartedly.

The major point that I take umbrage with however is the fate of the newer diver (as minted at resorts by PADI and their ilk). They do not have the information/experience at their disposal to make a decision as above. They rightly or wrongly really on DMs/professionals for this. Wrongly I would suggest for the divers in this video and the lady that lost her life.

But why would a professional or operator that purports to understand local conditions put novice divers in such potentially risky situations? I had a really boring dive trip/liveabord a couple of years back because a few divers lied about their experience and weren't up to the dives we would have otherwise done. Good call by the DMs. I can't fathom any other reasoning TBH.

For those criticising the divers in the video you are essentially saying that if novices weren't novices then they wouldn't be having novice problems in somewhat challenging conditions. You wish the world was a way it is not. But it is the way it is and as responsible divers we not only have the obligation to help educate other divers but also to hold to account the integrity of operations that knowingly put their customers in harms way.

My $0.02 at least.

John

Let's think back to the topic that spawned this thread. An inexperienced diver lost in an unusual series of down currents even for Coz. Should someone have been more attentive and concerned?

(I know, "off topic". Post will be deleted.). But Marg, it is NOT off topic. With all due respect.