PADI or GUE for beginner?

[Skyflyer]

For you who are PADI and GUE experienced, especially instructors who are dual certified, I am a new diver who has passed my PADI eLearning on-line course, but am a bit confused about where to go from here. I was planning on going to get my PADI Open Water certification this summer, but then I discovered GUE after taking my test. To be honest, because of my temperament, type of job (airline pilot) and past service with the Navy, I thought the GUE approach might fit my desire for a "perceived" more disciplined way of diving and putting fitness as a high priority. (Many of the divers, instructors and DM's at my LSD are not only over weight, but obese, and it's disconcerting). Of the GUE divers I've conversed with so far, they are all very fit.

My question is this: Should I finish my PADI Open Water Cert and then decide which way to go, or just go straight to Rec 1 in GUE. My concern is that it would be much easier to stay with PADI because there are many more PADI divers at my LSD and in my area PNW than GUE divers and would be easier to find a permanent dive buddy. I'm not looking for easy though, I'm looking to explore the world and be the best diver I can be (perhaps a bit romantic, but that's my goal).

In the end, from what I see they're both great organizations and I'm sure there would be room in both for someone wanting to improve, advance and become the best diver s/he can be.

I really would appreciate guidance and your comments will be respected, no matter what your position on either agency or style of diving.
I'm very interested in not wasting time, money or people's time, but just want to find the best direction for me from those who've gone down the both paths before me.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

If you want the team diving aspect and the dogma, go GUE. If you just want dive ninja skills, find a good instructor--agency is irrelevant for that. If you don't like fat buddies, don't dive with fatties.

 

[TSandM]

I am a GUE-trained PADI DM, and my husband is a GUE-trained PADI instructor (just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from).

Diving in the PNW is not easy diving. The water is cold, the exposure protection is thick and the gear is heavy. Buoyancy control is challenging, and it's very easy to have buddy separations. It's VERY difficult to build a solid set of skills in 4 open water dives. Although the shop for which we teach has a very good program with a LOT of pool time, we still rarely see students come out of dive 4 as really competent, confident cold water divers. It's just too much to learn in such a short time.

Doing the GUE OW class would give you much more time in the water, which is a good thing. The class is very expensive, however, and I don't know how often Koos teaches it, if he even has. You could most likely do OW, AOW and Nitrox with a PADI shop for what GUE OW would cost you -- but unless you work with folks like Koos or my husband or a few of our other GUE or cave-trained PADI instructors, you simply won't get the focus on good buoyancy and correct weighting and trim that you would with those folks.

I don't know where in the PNW you are, but I guess I'd say that, since you have invested the money in the PADI e-learning, I would recommend going ahead and finishing your PADI OW cert -- but if at all possible, with someone who has technical, cave, or GUE training. If you are in the Seattle area at all, there is a good-sized group of GUE divers that you can meet up with once you are certified -- we have group dives at Alki every Wednesday night, and there is always someone diving on the weekends. You can get mentored from early on, and it does help. And when you are ready, you can take Fundamentals with Koos.

Please feel free to PM me if I can answer any questions or help you sort anything out. I am a huge believer in the standardized, team-oriented approach to diving that GUE teaches.

 

[eelnoraa]

I started out with PADI OW (2009), did about 75 dives, then took PADI AOW (2010). I wasn't satisfied with the training and skill set. I then took GUE fundamental (2011). My take is that I will still recommend new diver to go with PADI OW under one condition - He/she (you in this case) must do research to find a good instructor. After getting certified and some dives, if you believe diving is sport for you, then go take GUE primer or fundamental.

My reason is that 1)since you are new, you may not know diving is your thing. GUE R1 is expansive in dollar amount. On top of that, you may not be able to borrow or rent equipment required for the class. It means you have to buy them, which makes it more expansive. It sucks if you realize diving is for your thing after spending a lot of money. 2)GUE traing standard is quite high compare to PADI, it may overwhelm new divers, making the class less than enjoyable. 3) GUE cert is not as widely recognized as PADI. In Thailand, Hawaii, I have had to explain to get my card recognized.

Having the above said, if you know you have commited to diving, willing to spend some money, willing to take some challenge, you will be a much more potent diver coming out of GUE R1 than PADI OW

 

[Centrals]

Find a good instructor.
I am not GUE trained and the team diving aspect as well as idiosyncrasy are too much for my weak stomach.
I am more than happy with my IANTD training.

 

[Nasser]

Finish the PADI course. You've already started and having a PADI cert. will be recognized pretty much anywhere in the world. Get a few dives in and if you're still intrigued by GUE you can take a Primer or Fundamentals course... and continue with the GUE system if you so choose.

Having a PADI cert. will certainly do you no harm, but as others have said, the most important thing is to find a great instructor regardless of the agency you choose.

 

[chrisch]

Personally I would finish the PADI OW. GUE are very interesting and generally I like their attitude to teams and safety but I would see GUE as a development rather than a start point. Most divers will have contact with GUE through fundamentals and the Rec ticket is a new thing (new to me too). PADI is recognised and understood. Your initial training is just that - there will be more to come and plenty of time to explore what GUE has to offer for you. Most people with a number of years' diving will have certification from different agencies and this let's you see the good and bad in most systems. I don't think any agency has the monopoly on "good" - even GUE. Finish what you have started then move on. It's early days at this point.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I would recommend continuing with your PADI OW class.
Get some experience diving, have fun, and evaluate your goals from there.

I would recommend holding off on buying any gear, until you decide you are really going to like diving.

GUE training is going to be more demanding in terms of skill.

Get certified, and just go dive.

*PADI DM and GUE trained.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[Oldbear]

As a PADI Instructor with GUE training I do not see it as one method or the other is the best course of action for dive training...both have unique qualities to offer. If you have read about GUE, their diving philosophy and their training methods and you have the inclination to take a GUE class than by all means do so, you most likely will not be disappointed. PADI's Open Water, AOW, and Rescue courses focus is on "Recreational" diving. GUE for me was a great introduction to Tech Diving's world. I am still on the fence of just how much "Tech" diving I want to be apart in. Depth is not that big of a deal for me, however, historical wrecks and cave diving is. My GUE training has made me a better diver and I feel a better PADI instructor. I enjoy diving utilizing the DIR approach, but I also enjoy my typical Recreation BCD equipment configuration too.

My advice is to complete your PADI open water course. Then just dive for a while...20 or so dives. Then when you get a feel for basic open water diving, then look at expanding your education in what ever direction YOU want to go in. It is just like learning to fly...start out with your Private Pilot's License, practice for a while then move on the next level of training (Instrument) or next aircraft rating (tail dragger or high performance endorsements).

 

[Simon-]

"It's VERY difficult to build a solid set of skills in 4 open water dives. Although the shop for which we teach has a very good program with a LOT of pool time, we still rarely see students come out of dive 4 as really competent, confident cold water divers. It's just too much to learn in such a short time".

Not looking to start an argument, but why only 4 dives?

For OW certifications, a minimum of 4 dives is required. If after 4 dives, mastery is not demonstrated for the level of the diver training, then surely the approach should be additional open water dives until it is achieved.

I have used learning agreements with students for a couple of years which pretty much state that. One or two extra dives i generally would not charge more for, but past that, extra costs do exist. Students are aware of this before they start their course.

If they don't agree, no problem, but go find an instructor who may sign them off sooner.