Can anyone relate an experience where, in the recent past, a non-PADI card was rejected due to it not being recognized (other than France etc.). I don't want hearsay, just your personal experience that you were rejected.
Non PADI Card Rejected?
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spiderman:
Nope! And in France they reject out of bigotry, not because they don't recognize the card.
spiderman:
Nope - but a friend at church still had his card accepted even though it was from a defunct agency from the late 60's or early 70's (can't remember the exact year but it was about 35 years ago) - of course when he lost the card it made it impossible to replace . . .
Tim
P.S. so now he's an ex salvage diver with decades of experience working as a commercial diver that can't get anyone to give him air fills :-( (he almost took BOW with me to get a new card)
FatCat:
Uhmm, actually, there are four agencies, recognized by law, in France: ANMP, FSGT, SNMP and FFESSM. All the rest are, legally, not recognized. Scuba-diving is subject to law in France...all of you living elsewhere, consider yourself lucky in that regard, a law governing recreational scuba diving doesn't exactly make things easier.
When diving within any structure (comercial or club) in France, a diver MUST possess a certificate from one of these agencies -- or rather, a diver MUST possess a level recognized by these agencies. Otherwise, the structure is in deep legal sh**, should something go wrong.
However (and here's where the bigotry comes in), any French instructor (who's state recognized, btw.) can assign a "temporary recognition of capability" for a foregin diver (typically through an evaluation-dive and cert verification). This, then, lets the diver dive in that instructors structure legally. Either many french instructor don't know this, or they don't want to exercise this ability.
The FFESSM formally recognizes CMAS-levels without any further testing necessary -- at least, in theory they do. FFESSM-affiliated centers/clubs are, however, known not to apply this, and summarilly turn non-french trained divers away with "you can get lost or get a discover scuba experience". ANMP (and supposibly SNMP), on the other hand, has the motto that "you can't refuse a customer", and tend to check cards and take you on a nice shallow dive to see you in the water -- and you'll be in the game. Therefore, a way of avoiding "rejection" as a diver in France is simply to aim for a center which is affiliated with ANMP or SNMP rather than FFESSM. That's been my experience, at least.
Ahh, well, long story, but something which bothers me since I now live in the hexagon....
On the other hand, I cannot count the centers world-wide I've been diving with without ever been asked to see any c-card at all -- somehow, that strikes me as more surprising, liability-wise.
RICHinNC
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Charlie99
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Just for fun, about 3 years ago I tried to use my Japanese drivers license (all kanji, no english other than my name, but does look official and has my photo) on a couple boats in Florida. It was rejected by one, but the accepted by the other. :banana:spiderman:
I've also had one PADI card rejected. I showed a photography cert card to a dive op down in Looe Key. He asked me to dig deeper into my bag and find a real one, which I did.
Marek K
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voop:
Wow, when did this come into effect?? Napoleonic Code, indeed. Guess they're not eager to get all the foreign tourists they can, at least in the dive industry. And not very "play-nicely-with-others," European Union-wise.
My wife and I are both PADI AOWD certified. We dived in Hyeres, Southern France, in about 1991. Didn't experience any hassle at all.
Of course, it was a German-owned and -operated dive operation; that might have had something to do with it.
--Marek
Marek K:
Heh, I think that the last edition of the law that stipulates these things is from '98 (revised in '04) -- when the original law comes from, who knows? Let's just blame it on Napoleon, he probably won't mind any more
Interrestingly, the new European Norms (Standards) for scuba diving, which the European Union has just issued (and which member-countries must follow), is meeting great resistance in France since it does not favor French-trained divers. There's talks about a permanent exception to that standard for the benefit of the French....
As for you getting cert'ed and dive PADI in France, it seems that you picked the right solution: look for foregin instructors (like yours truely) who's had to fight the system themself and who just want divers to....dive, not muck with burocracy
It's a shame -- as I said, France has a great many wonderful dives
Marek K
Contributor
voop:
Huh??? "Favor French-trained divers"?? "Benefit of the French"?? Does that mean what it sounds like, or do you mean the French feel they're going to be disadvanaged for some reason? Please explain all this... What do the new Euro Norms say? I think it's got everything to do with this thread.
voop:
No... We got PADI-certified back home in North Carolina, in 1986. ("Home" as in the U.S., not North Carolina -- we're from the Seattle area.) We were living in Berlin at the time we drove down to Hyeres to dive.
Here in Poland now, PADI is by far the biggest, which shouldn't be surprising.
Does PADI teach in France now? If so, how does that factor into all this? I mean, if they don't, that would be pretty anomalous in the world. If they do, do they meet the French standards?
Weird.
--Marek
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