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By the way, I forgot to mention. I was told by the LDS that every single pair of split fins has to cost at least $189.00 due to some sort of patent royalties stuff to be paid to the original manufacturer/inventor. It could be true. Matter of fact, all the split fins had the same identical price. Only one model was higher in price. Ok, to me, this patent story was a sufficient reason to believe that the price could not be any higher than other places. The price is 'set' by contract, why bother checking around? I was wrong again.
this is *such* bs it would prevent me from ever shopping there for anything ever again. it would also prevent me from ever being concerned about trying things on & laughing as i left tapping my laptop. ok, maybe not that far, but jeez, talk about fleecing the suckers. this shop is unethical, period.
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...and the days go by, water flowing under ground, into the blue again, into the silent water, under the rocks and stones, there is water underground... - talking heads
If you try on a mask at an LDS and it fits, do you have to buy it? If you try on a pair of pants at a clothing store and they fit, are you committed. If you try a free sample at the food store and like it, must you purchase? If you make thousands of posts on SB, should you pay them?
Your logic is silly. Of course not. And I never said you were "obligated" to buy anything. One *should*, however, place some monetary value on being able to try something on locally. Personally, if I'm buying something that needs to be fitted, I go to a local store, have them help, and then give them first try at price. Since I would have already checked prices online, I'm in a position to barter. If the price can get close, where the difference seems commensurate with service I received, I will buy at the LDS. If it remains absurdly, high, then OF COURSE go elsewhere! My point (stated three or four times now, but I guess some people can't be bothered to read the entire thread) is: (1) do your homework on price BEFORE you buy not after, and (2) if you use a local service, value that service monetarily. Of course don't get fleeced. Duh.
Gyanni, Thank you for your original post and subsequent comments. I appreciate your candor and sense of humor...("Mask scrub is my best friend"). Welcome to Scuba Board.
I have been in many LDSs over the past few years. Some have "salespersons" (on commission)and some have divers that want you to enjoy the sport. I try to stop in a LDS whenever I am out of town, just to meet divers and see what is going on in the area and have met both types.
I have tried on various pieces of gear without buying. Usually it is because it is a piece of gear that I am not familar with (my LDS doesn't handle) and I want to see what it is like. For the same reason, I try to rent different brands on the road. I ALSO talk to the owner of my LDS and have had wonderful service. He has actually suggested that I look on line for some things that he can's afford to stock on a regular basis or can't order in time for a trip. (He actually threw in a free tube of scrub when I bought a mask).
Stick it out, enjoy diving and as an old friend once said "Don't price something after you buy one, you be sorry".
BS Red flag thrown. I hate self-aggrandising moral garbage. :11:
We all engage in competitive pricing behavior every day. When I go out to buy a car, am I obliged to buy from the first dealer where I test drove the car? If I get a better deal at another dealer or online, am I engaging in unethical behavior if buy elsewhere? Are you saying that after you try something on, you are ethically obliged to buy it at that store? Ridiculous and self-serving rubbish. As consumers we have choices and if exercising those choice pisses you off - hey that's your problem. But cut the crap about moral obligations because "you tested it", then went elsewhere. It is the obligation of the reseller to make the item desirable and affordable. Not for the consumer to get ripped off because you think that it is "the right thing to do".
Again, just silliness. I of course never said you were obligated. Just to consider valuing personal face-to-face service (which is where online cannot be as competitive). You prattle on and on about being obligated to get ripped off if you talk with an LDS, which of course is a straw man that I never endorsed. But good on you. See my previous post. Do your homework, value service, and then purchase on value (cost+service). Isn't this what we do in ALL market place sectors?
Agreed. It's not ethical to use a local shop as a fitting room for a purchase online. Bob
I agree with this but also fail to see the OP embarked to do this. It ended up kind of looking like it but one has to sometimes look at what the other part is doing too. An example of my first time buying a suit online... because I thought the LDS deserved me turning away...
Some time ago I went to LDS to pick up some stuff from service. I saw a wetsuit I thought might work for my future tropical trips. It fit me but I disliked the color. The price was somewhat high, so I asked could I get it in other colors. I could, so I looked in the catalog, and noticed that the suit I had tried could not have been the newest model since all the colors were presented in new pattern. I looked at the sales person. No comment. I probed a bit, and the innuendo was it was last year's model but I got no clear confirmation.
I went home and checked. The model I tried on was three years old. They would have been happy to sell it for the price of a new one. They would have been happy to let me think it was newest. I checked a couple of sites. Last year's models were going on sale everywhere. 3yrs old were non-existent and I could not even find out if they had the same features (flexibility etc).
In short, I was a little annoyed. I thought in this case I would make an exception to my rule about "fitting rooms". I ordered last year's model online for >$100 less. 2 days later I got a call from the vendor that unfortunately they ran out of the close-outs and would I accept the 2008 model for the same close-out price, any color I want. SCUBATOYS ROCKS!
I agree with this but also fail to see the OP embarked to do this. It ended up kind of looking like it but one has to sometimes look at what the other part is doing too. An example of my first time buying a suit online... because I thought the LDS deserved me turning away...
Some time ago I went to LDS to pick up some stuff from service. I saw a wetsuit I thought might work for my future tropical trips. It fit me but I disliked the color. The price was somewhat high, so I asked could I get it in other colors. I could, so I looked in the catalog, and noticed that the suit I had tried could not have been the newest model since all the colors were presented in new pattern. I looked at the sales person. No comment. I probed a bit, and the innuendo was it was last year's model but I got no clear confirmation.
I went home and checked. The model I tried on was three years old. They would have been happy to sell it for the price of a new one. They would have been happy to let me think it was newest. I checked a couple of sites. Last year's models were going on sale everywhere. 3yrs old were non-existent and I could not even find out if they had the same features (flexibility etc).
In short, I was a little annoyed. I thought in this case I would make an exception to my rule about "fitting rooms". I ordered last year's model online for >$100 less. 2 days later I got a call from the vendor that unfortunately they ran out of the close-outs and would I accept the 2008 model for the same close-out price, any color I want. SCUBATOYS ROCKS!
Check out Post #60. Bob
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The statement was not directed at you, just one more sympathy vote for OP – that I do not see him as another newbie who maliciously walked into the LDS thinking of using it as a fitting room.
If it was not said yet I also would like to remind that it is not always so easy, especially for new divers, to do the price shopping in advance. We have all been there, one wants stuff and does not even know of all the brands one would need to check or what a particular shop carriers. Let alone be able to check all singular models and remember the price ranges or singular prices when bombarded with the shiny items and (sometimes as eager) sales people in the shop. It can be oh-so-hard to walk out without that big bulging bag even when you ahd promised yourself you won't buy anything on first visit.
It gets easier - well, the comparison part, not the "wanting" part.
One *should*, however, place some monetary value on being able to try something on locally. Personally, if I'm buying something that needs to be fitted, I go to a local store, have them help, and then give them first try at price. Since I would have already checked prices online, I'm in a position to barter.
There are probably many ways to attempt to estimate a monetary value. One good start point is to look at the price tag. The price tag in all the shops I have been in for looking and trying things on (not in the water) has always been $0.00. Of course, if your estimate is higher than that, you may be able to convince the merchant to accept a payment in some manner (as the OP did).
I agree that a shopper should give the local merchant an opportunity to compete. However, if you know that merchant is unwilling to compete and may even take some reprisal action if you make the purchase elsewhere, then it would be silly for the customer to spring that trap.
I would not find it to be worth $30 to try on a mask in a store that is priced at $70 that I find elsewhere for $40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer
Your logic is silly.... (2) if you use a local service, value that service monetarily.
So does this reiteration of paying for uncharged services mean you are going RED on scubaboard?
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And I never said you were "obligated" to buy anything. One *should*, however, place some monetary value on being able to try something on locally.
...
My point (stated three or four times now, but I guess some people can't be bothered to read the entire thread) is: (1) do your homework on price BEFORE you buy not after, and (2) if you use a local service, value that service monetarily. Of course don't get fleeced. Duh.
I'm not sure why you've felt the need to say it three or four times or think anyone didn't understand it. Everyone agrees that one should do their research before buying. Even the OP agrees. He made a mistake which he has acknowledged. He bought some items which he *had not intended to buy*. Hard to have researched something you didn't foresee buying.
You mention valuing the service provided but it comes down to what value. Your original posts about trying on in the store and then buying online were absolute in their declaration of it as "unethical". Which suggests there is an "ethical" obligation to buy. We all know there is no *legal* obligation, that is not in dispute. You said if you take advantage of the service you should pay for it, period. Not if the cost of the service was reasonable. If someone helps me try on a mask (try going into a shop and trying on fins and masks without somebody hovering beside you offering their pearls of wisdom) for 15 minutes and the mask costs $10 more than online, I might decide that the service was worth $10 and buy. If it costs $40 more then I might decide the service was not worth $40 and leave. Is the latter case "unethical"? That's all the OP did, only he realized the cost of the service after the fact and decided it was not worth that. Note that he did not return everything.
You have also sidestepped the part about the shop lying about pricing. Now we can play semantics about what "competitive" means or what constitutes "very good" prices, but there is no ambiguity in the BS about all split fins legally costing $189 due to patents and restrictions.
In the end, I agree that it is wrong for someone to use the LDS as a fitting room when they have no intention of buying there. I have stated this in posts many times over the years and even chastised people for doing so. But that is not the case with this person. They did not intend to even look at anything other than a wetsuit so there cannot be any such intent to "use" them.
BS Red flag thrown. I hate self-aggrandising moral garbage. :11:
We all engage in competitive pricing behavior every day. ..Are you saying that after you try something on, you are ethically obliged to buy it at that store? Ridiculous and self-serving rubbish.
tridacna: I totally agree. The "I would never do that." "It's not ethical" types are self aggrandizing about how nice they are when, of course, people get various bids on home improvements, shop for cars and test drive at different dealership, ask for help at several computer stores, etc. They then make a choice. Nothing wrong with it all.
The OP learned fast how many LDS owners lie and play the blame game etc. Those good local stores who simply tell the truth and offer good service will survive. Major internet and brick and mortar stores like Leisure Pro, Scubatoys, Scuba.com, and others offer large selection, good service and warranty backup, and no attitude.
...and the days go by, water flowing under ground, into the blue again, into the silent water, under the rocks and stones, there is water underground... - talking heads
Bob
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