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I'm not sure why you've felt the need to say it three or four times or think anyone didn't understand it. Everyone agrees that one should do their research before buying. Even the OP agrees. He made a mistake which he has acknowledged. He bought some items which he *had not intended to buy*. Hard to have researched something you didn't foresee buying.
Um, you research then buy. If you don't, then really, should you bitch when you don't get the deal you want? Did you walk on the car lot and buy your last ride without having some idea of prices? If you pay the sticker price and then get home to realize it could have cost you much less, do you get upset at the salesman or yourself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefHound
You mention valuing the service provided but it comes down to what value. Your original posts about trying on in the store and then buying online were absolute in their declaration of it as "unethical". Which suggests there is an "ethical" obligation to buy.
Nope, there's an obligation to do your homework if you're going to complain. That's all. The ethical issue is simply using a local store as a fitting room. If that's not the OPs intention, see post 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefHound
You have also sidestepped the part about the shop lying about pricing. Now we can play semantics about what "competitive" means or what constitutes "very good" prices, but there is no ambiguity in the BS about all split fins legally costing $189 due to patents and restrictions.
Not sidestepping in the least. This came out after I had posted. If the shop lies, you walk. How big of a "duh" is that? Seriously...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefHound
In the end, I agree that it is wrong for someone to use the LDS as a fitting room when they have no intention of buying there. I have stated this in posts many times over the years and even chastised people for doing so. But that is not the case with this person. They did not intend to even look at anything other than a wetsuit so there cannot be any such intent to "use" them.
So does this reiteration of paying for uncharged services mean you are going RED on scubaboard?
Again, totally silly. There's nothing being offered for sale here. It's a free site. If you want to donate great, go ahead. Really, I'm here for the entertainment, not any "knowledge". If a friend offers you a suggestion, do you throw him a fiver? If you feel strongly, feel free to go RED yourself.
Not sidestepping in the least. This came out after I had posted. If the shop lies, you walk. How big of a "duh" is that? Seriously...
The big "duh" is in exactly how is a new diver supposed to know the shop is lying about something like this? New divers have no idea just how warped the dive industry can be. If you find out later the shop lied is it unethical to return purchases made based on that lie?
When you walk into a store and get helped you can expect them to present the best side of their products and to have a certain bias but you should not have to suffer blatant lies and misinformation.
As for doing homework ahead of time, that horse has been beaten to death.
The big "duh" is in exactly how is a new diver supposed to know the shop is lying about something like this? New divers have no idea just how warped the dive industry can be. If you find out later the shop lied is it unethical to return purchases made based on that lie?
No, of course not. That's why I said, (1) do your homework, then (2) go shopping. Of course, expect to pay a bit more if you're given in store service that you couldn't have gotten online. That "bit more" is up to you to decide. Just don't "use" the store as a fitting room intending the entire time to buy online due to price. THAT is what I consider unethical.
By the way, I forgot to mention. I was told by the LDS that every single pair of split fins has to cost at least $189.00 due to some sort of patent royalties stuff to be paid to the original manufacturer/inventor. It could be true. Matter of fact, all the split fins had the same identical price. Only one model was higher in price. Ok, to me, this patent story was a sufficient reason to believe that the price could not be any higher than other places. The price is 'set' by contract, why bother checking around? I was wrong again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyDuck
this is *such* bs it would prevent me from ever shopping there for anything ever again. it would also prevent me from ever being concerned about trying things on & laughing as i left tapping my laptop. ok, maybe not that far, but jeez, talk about fleecing the suckers. this shop is unethical, period.
Do you think it was a plain lie? Could it be possible that this 'rule' really exist and some sellers are able to go around it while others, the smaller ones, can't?
I'm curious now, 'm trying to find some information, but I'm not getting much info back from Google, maybe I'm not using the right words.. (split + fins + royalties).
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Last edited by GYANNI; April 10th, 2008 at 01:22 PM..
Reason: addition
Again, totally silly. There's nothing being offered for sale here. It's a free site. If you want to donate great, go ahead. Really, I'm here for the entertainment, not any "knowledge". If a friend offers you a suggestion, do you throw him a fiver? If you feel strongly, feel free to go RED yourself.
Deleted
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Last edited by awap; April 10th, 2008 at 06:04 PM..
Do you think it was a plain lie? Could it be possible that this 'rule' really exist and some sellers are able to go around it while others, the smaller ones, can't?
I'm curious now, 'm trying to find some information, but I'm not getting much info back from Google, maybe I'm not using the right words.. (split + fins + royalties).
At the retail level I have no doubt that it's a lie. It may well be the manufacturers have to pay a royalty (i.e. $20 or so) to the patent holder for each pair sold but that is built into the wholesale price to retailer and has nothing to do with a fixed retail price.
Do you think it was a plain lie? Could it be possible that this 'rule' really exist and some sellers are able to go around it while others, the smaller ones, can't?
I'm curious now, 'm trying to find some information, but I'm not getting much info back from Google, maybe I'm not using the right words.. (split + fins + royalties).
"Lie" is such a strong word. Think of it as one of so many deceptions an LDS or any other business may employ to put your money in their cash register.
And there are so many more of them.
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Some LDS's will give a discount when that much is purchased. Just ask, I usually get about 8-10%. Also I check the online prices before I make my final purchase so I know the going price of what I am buying. The LDS may deal especially if paid with cash vs credit. There are many items in my kit that the local LDS's do not carry. Over half of my gear is from LDS except what they do not carry - Dive Rite, Oxycheq, some higher end equipment, etc. Who would purchase from the LDS if it was 25% more. For example, who in their right mind would pay $500 for a $375 wetsuit? Or $189 for $149 or less fins? The self proclaimed ethical not so smart shoppers.
It is best to TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. No one would buy a $20K car from the internet without first trying it. Would you buy it from your local dealer if the next city over had it for 15% less? Just discussing the going price with the retailer may get one a better deal.
Some forum members think they need to tell others what is ethical in the retail business. It is none of their business how another person chooses to spend their money. I am sure that any retail store would prefer customers and "traffic" in their store to enhance sales. Versus losing customer base to other LDS's internet sales.
Last edited by cmburch; April 10th, 2008 at 03:01 PM..
Do you think it was a plain lie? Could it be possible that this 'rule' really exist and some sellers are able to go around it while others, the smaller ones, can't?
I'm curious now, 'm trying to find some information, but I'm not getting much info back from Google, maybe I'm not using the right words.. (split + fins + royalties).
Gyanni: All manufacturers of split fins pay a royalty to Natures Wing, the holder of the patent on this technology. The royalty is a few dollars per pair.
Some split fin versions use inexpensive plastics and polymers and
cost under $20.00 to produce, others use higher grade materials and design features and cost much more to manufacture.
The retail price is a marketing decision. Some of the cheaper versions price up against the better models simply because they can. As pointed out here, do your research, and, if possible, try before you buy.
In any case, the LDS in question flat out lied to you regarding the whole royalty issue.
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