Dodgy 'Internships'

[appleseed024]

I'm living in Thailand and I've been looking at all types of opportunities around the country to dive, including internships.
They all look so fabulous as all inclusive deals with brand new gear, and PADI fees, and accomodation...and loads of other things.
But the more I look into them...they don't really seem like internships at all.
It seems like they're just asking for a whole bunch of money to finish your course, and then you end up working for them for free anyway...???
Perhaps I'm reading this all wrong, but does anyone have internship or instructor diving experience in Thailand that could point me in the right direction?
I want to steer clear of hidden fees and dodgy cowboy dive schemes.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Cheers!
appleseed024

[Sinbad the Diver]

Originally Posted by appleseed024

I'm living in Thailand and I've been looking at all types of opportunities around the country to dive, including internships.
They all look so fabulous as all inclusive deals with brand new gear, and PADI fees, and accomodation...and loads of other things.
But the more I look into them...they don't really seem like internships at all.
It seems like they're just asking for a whole bunch of money to finish your course, and then you end up working for them for free anyway...???
Perhaps I'm reading this all wrong, but does anyone have internship or instructor diving experience in Thailand that could point me in the right direction?
I want to steer clear of hidden fees and dodgy cowboy dive schemes.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Cheers!
appleseed024

I know this guy, he's a relative of a friend of the family of the deposed King of Nigeria. He needs some help getting his hidden fortune moved to a US bank. If you help him, he'll give you a finder's fee and you won't have to worry about the cost of diving ever again. Just send me your bank account info, SSN, 2 credit card numbers and I'll get you hooked up with him

Though the idea you're describing seems even better....you pay us money, then work for us free. It's a whole new take on indentured servatude.

[Jupiter31]

Originally Posted by appleseed024

I'm living in Thailand and I've been looking at all types of opportunities around the country to dive, including internships.
They all look so fabulous as all inclusive deals with brand new gear, and PADI fees, and accomodation...and loads of other things.
But the more I look into them...they don't really seem like internships at all.
It seems like they're just asking for a whole bunch of money to finish your course, and then you end up working for them for free anyway...???
Perhaps I'm reading this all wrong, but does anyone have internship or instructor diving experience in Thailand that could point me in the right direction?
I want to steer clear of hidden fees and dodgy cowboy dive schemes.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Cheers!
appleseed024

Now you're starting to understand - you pay them money, you take care of your own room and board, you work your butt off -

I have seen posts about these programs - don't think they are a rip off, however believe that diving is a process best accomplished over time - regardless how intense these programs are, and regardless of the number of dives per day, I am just a little leary of "90 day wonders"

There are many threads on Thai based programs - you should do a search as there is a ton of info - then you can make your own decision.

[appleseed024]

thanks for the reply Sinbad... hahaha.. i really like that. the "pay us work free" definetly seems scheme-ish.

and thanks Jupiter. I wasn't aware there were posts on Thai programs. I'll check it out! Thanks for the advice

cheers!
appleseed

[Crowley]

From the dictionary:

intern (n): a person who works as an apprentice or trainee in an occupation or profession to gain practical experience....

By definition, an internship involves on the job training - so yes, your labour is unpaid, but the experience you gain, if you wish to work in this business, can be invaluable. Not all shops require their interns to "work" - at my old shop it was purely voluntary but highly recommended. Guiding dives, running boats, assisting on courses, hauling gear and tanks - all part of the real world dive industry and worth every drop of sweat.

I was quite upfront with my DM candidates - you don't have to work for us, but if you want a good reference...! Many canididates relished the opportunity to function as a DM in a real life, very busy dive operation and they excelled and went off to bigger and better things after their IEs. At least two I know are now managing dive shops of their own.

In some cases, yes, the labour is expected of you. From a business point of view internships have a great many overheads, there is a great deal of competition and therefore some shops effectively reduce their overheads by asking their DM trainees to work - usually for discounts on courses or equipment. Some people really want to train like this - and I applaud them for it (I did).

Look carefully at the shops - and as per my other posts, PM me for more info if you want. I have been an intern and ended up employed by and helping to run the internships at the same shop so I've seen it from both sides of the coin.

Good luck!

C.

[Louie]

Originally Posted by appleseed024

I'm living in Thailand and I've been looking at all types of opportunities around the country to dive, including internships.
They all look so fabulous as all inclusive deals with brand new gear, and PADI fees, and accomodation...and loads of other things.
But the more I look into them...they don't really seem like internships at all.
It seems like they're just asking for a whole bunch of money to finish your course, and then you end up working for them for free anyway...???
Perhaps I'm reading this all wrong, but does anyone have internship or instructor diving experience in Thailand that could point me in the right direction?
I want to steer clear of hidden fees and dodgy cowboy dive schemes.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Cheers!
appleseed024

It can seem all confusing. and there are many operators so there will be cowboys - as well as many good operations. Ask lots of questions like TOTAL cost of the programmes, what is included and what is not, how long should the training take etc.

As someone who'd worked and lived in Thailand, the best advice I can give anyone looking into it is: if anyone tells you that you're guaranteed a job at the end of your training/certification, don't always believe them. If a shop tells you you can work off what you owe them for training, I would be very cautious. I am aware this sort of an arrangement can be problematic.

If you want further details, PM me.

Good luck.

[Aquanauts Pattaya]

Hello Appleseed, I've already PM'd you with a link to our program, but I'd like to follow on what Crowley said. While he didn't do his internship with us, the program he did do it was is similarly structured.

Yes, the courses are paid packages with the goal of taking you to a professional level over up to 6 months. However, what is not charged for by us or by Crowley's outfit is the actual diving. Over six months most interns log about 250 dives. IF you took the average price of 250 dives around Thailand, or even the world, it woudl total more than the entire internship package costs.

In exchange for that diving we at Aquanauts do ask -- only once you begin your Divemaster training -- for you to do some work. However, unlike some truly "dodgy" Thai programs -- none of which are located in Pattaya -- we do not have you do any work that is not directy related to making you a better and safer diver. You lead dives for tourist customers, assist instructors with courss and manage the boat (taking care of the dive roster, working with the boat crew, etc.)

You do NOT pump tanks, clean gear, work in the shop, have to sell anything nor any menial labor. We have paid Thai staff that does that.

The same, unfortunately, cannot be said of all programs in Thailand, some of which openly offer "free" courses in exchange for your services. Beware these. They are not only ILLEGAL in Thailand, but they will have you up at 5 a.m. and working until 11 p.m. at night doing stuff that has nothing to do with building your dive skills. Plus, if you are caught by immigration, you will be arrested, jailed, fined, and even deported.

A work permit is required to work whether for salary or barter (i.e. in exchange for those "free" courses.) By paying a reputable school for your training, you are a student, on a proper Education visa we provide for you.

The packages we and a select other few have created may seem too good to be true, but you pay fair rates for all the courses, books, gear, accommodations and fees. But the real value is in all the diving you get.

Hope that allays some of your concerns,

[Crowley]

good points Bob - I am continually amazed at how you manage to sniff these posts out!!

One thing I thought I'd mention since Aquanauts has it in his post - is that when you do an internship in order to gain employment in the dive industry, learning how to pump tanks is a damn good idea!! I used to teach any interested interns how to use the compressor. For one - it's a useful skill and for two - it was nice for tank boy monkey here (i.e. me) to have a night away from the compressor room!

Cheers,

C.

[Aquanauts Pattaya]

True, but it should be optional, not required just to get your courses free/discounted.

[appleseed024]

great! thanks for all the posts. I will put all these points into consideration. thanks for the advice!