Can people really get certified without knowing how to swim?

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for the apology, my delicately feathered friend..

t was blowing very hard here yesterday, I image it WAS very rough yesterday. Now today, was very nice, slight to moderate current and 50-75 ft vis, 75 degrees... in 80-90 feet of water..

I dived that afternoon (Hydro Atlantic), and it wasn't much cooler at 160 feet. I am going out this morning as well. Hopefully it won't be much different.

[Colliam7]

[quote=Peter Guy]c. As an instructor, I've made the decision that NONE of my students will do the 200 yard "swim" because it TEACHES THEM NOTHING and tells me very little. OTOH, having them do the 300 yard, MFS "swim" (or whatever you want to call it) as a buddy team, teaches them a lot and tells me something about their ability to be a diver.

LOL. Well said!Peter, just as I found Walter's comment (which may seem to be a bit at odds with your approach) enlightening, I am also intrigued by yours. I have not been looking at the Watermanship Skills as a teaching opportunity, rather as a safety check at the beginning of OW training, and I may be missing a chance both to facilitate student learning, and to assess student ability.

Peter, had the chance to start using the 300 yard MFS swim with a private OW class in February. I agree with your comments - it really did give me a chance to see how they a) used their fins, b) breathed through a 'device' with their face (in a mask) in the water. I found it very helpful, and will continue the practice - all students will do the 300 yard MFS swim. Thanks for your post.

[Peter Guy]

Colliam -- You are quite welcome.

Thank you for coming back to this.

[Incognegro]

I guess maybe I fit into the none swimmer category. But I had a problem when taking my swim test because when I would go to turn around on the deep end I would always go to touch the wall, and in the shallow end (3ft), I would touch the bottom and it would mess up my coordination. So I opted for the snorkeling. And I had real problems passing the float test, but I did 2 months later. So where do I fit in?

[floridanewbe]

I guess maybe I fit into the none swimmer category. But I had a problem when taking my swim test because when I would go to turn around on the deep end I would always go to touch the wall, and in the shallow end (3ft), I would touch the bottom and it would mess up my coordination. So I opted for the snorkeling. And I had real problems passing the float test, but I did 2 months later. So where do I fit in?

we do things because they are hard not because they are easy. You fit in to the category that i share, which is a large group that had to overcome fears to become certified. Thats not a bad thing in my book

[cree]

I'm awaiting my open water portion but not a good swimmer. I'm more fearful of jumping off the boat without any pfd for the snorkeling portion than my actual open water scuba skills. I'm thinking i have a fear because my cousin drown years ago from jumping off a boat.

[TMHeimer]

One of my favourite topics and thread revived. I said on page 1 that there should be one standard set by the agency. Since the thread opened in Jan. I have talked with and observed several instructors. Also, have read instructors' views on this thread. Wow- a lot of different thoughts on the swim test. One instructor said she doesn't even count laps, just wants to be sure everyone is capable of surviving in water. Another says it's "comfortability" in water that counts. Another says--as long as they can finish the 200 yards I don't care what it looks like (I have seen this happen and seen people finish who are NOT comfortable doing it). One instructor forbade students from using back or side stroke for some unknown reason. Another let the class vote on the 200 or the 300 (and all must do what the majority want). Recent posts here favour the 300 because it shows some basic scuba skills and will help the instructor know what sort of student he has. Well, back to page 1---What's so hard about the agency simply having a standard that says for example: "Students must do the following swim test-- blah blah... These are the rules.... This is the reason for the test....... Why not make it uniform and practical for all? Why so much discussion and philosophy? Especially if we're talking PADI. NAUI of course gives much more leeway for instructors to require more than the minimum, which I don't say is a bad thing.

[Incognegro]

I'm awaiting my open water portion but not a good swimmer. I'm more fearful of jumping off the boat without any pfd for the snorkeling portion than my actual open water scuba skills. I'm thinking i have a fear because my cousin drown years ago from jumping off a boat.

What agency are you taking your open water with, all I looked into the swimming/snorkling was in the confined part of the class.

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One of my favourite topics and thread revived. I said on page 1 that there should be one standard set by the agency. Since the thread opened in Jan. I have talked with and observed several instructors. Also, have read instructors' views on this thread. Wow- a lot of different thoughts on the swim test. One instructor said she doesn't even count laps, just wants to be sure everyone is capable of surviving in water. Another says it's "comfortability" in water that counts. Another says--as long as they can finish the 200 yards I don't care what it looks like (I have seen this happen and seen people finish who are NOT comfortable doing it). One instructor forbade students from using back or side stroke for some unknown reason. Another let the class vote on the 200 or the 300 (and all must do what the majority want). Recent posts here favour the 300 because it shows some basic scuba skills and will help the instructor know what sort of student he has. Well, back to page 1---What's so hard about the agency simply having a standard that says for example: "Students must do the following swim test-- blah blah... These are the rules.... This is the reason for the test....... Why not make it uniform and practical for all? Why so much discussion and philosophy? Especially if we're talking PADI. NAUI of course gives much more leeway for instructors to require more than the minimum, which I don't say is a bad thing.

I took PADI, and my instructor wouldn't sign off if you didn't pass the swim and float. and would only count a half a lap if you pushed off the wall. But on the other hand I was in a pool with a guy doing his confined skills with a NAUI instructor and he floated less than a minute, and swam about 5 ft and the instructor said okay. So that wasn't even the minimum. So is it really the agency, or the instructors themselves??

[agilis]

This past year, I came across two certified divers that mentioned they actually do not know how to swim.

Is this actually possible? Isn't this a basic requirement of all agencies?

Am sincerely interested to hear from those that were certified without knowing how to swim and the teaching methods applied.

That's absolutely impossible. Not even the most criminally irresponsible rogue instructor would ever consider certification for people who would drown if they fell off the boat. The idea is offensive and insulting. In any case, only a half-wit would consider attempting to learn scuba if they were unable to swim and were not thoroughly at ease in the water.

Although mental defectives are numerous, constituting a substantial segment of the population in some areas, I'm confident there are none among the ranks of certified divers. Absolutely none. Any AOW diver can move through the water like a fish, and some instructors can actually walk upon it.

[TMHeimer]

[QUOTE=agilis;6354498] In any case, only a half-wit would consider attempting to learn scuba if they were unable to swim and were not thoroughly at ease in the water.

*******

I used to agree 100% with that, but it has been done. Maybe by only 1% of people... "Unable to swim" and "not thoroughly at ease" must be more specifically defined. Unable to swim with a certain recognized stroke a distance in a reasonable time? I've been at ease in the water since maybe 7 years old but had to train extensively to get a 3 on the DM 400 swim. I hadn't swam at all in 39 years since HS swim team. I am no more at ease in the water now than I was before that training, though I can once again swim at least somewhat like I used to at age 15. But I understand where you're coming from.

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What agency are you taking your open water with, all I looked into the swimming/snorkling was in the confined part of the class.

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I took PADI, and my instructor wouldn't sign off if you didn't pass the swim and float. and would only count a half a lap if you pushed off the wall. But on the other hand I was in a pool with a guy doing his confined skills with a NAUI instructor and he floated less than a minute, and swam about 5 ft and the instructor said okay. So that wasn't even the minimum. So is it really the agency, or the instructors themselves??

Yeah, more good examples. I can speak only with PADI experience, but too many variations per instructor that I've seen there. Count half a lap for pushing off wall--that's yet another new one. You obviously have to touch the wall to turn. I believe competitive swimmers push off somewhat when they do their fancy underwater flip at the end of each lap, no? Experts please advise. Either way, how much of a push? How much of a pause during a turn? I saw a guy put his feet on the bottom doing that at the shallow end turn. He passed.