Cert. Agencies

[scruggs1]

Hope this is the right place for this...anyway...anyone have any cross-agency experience? I am a DM through PADI though it has been 6-7 years since I have done anything 'professional'. My 11 year old son is wanting to get certified. SSI and PADI are close enough for me to drive to. Best and safest is what I am after for him...of course I plan on having him ready before he even takes the first step in the classroom...just curious about what else is out there and does anyone think one is actually better than the other. I know from experience that it is the instructor that makes a good/bad class and I have seen both. Wondering more about the fundamentals embedded in the training programs. Thanks.

[Jim Lapenta]

You can choose from a multitude of agencies and while it is true that an instructor can make or break a class the agency is also important. Agencies like NAUI, SEI, CMAS, and BSAC have standards that require rescue skills in the OW class. I have been teaching for SEI (formerly the YMCA) for going on 4 years now and just added SDI/TDI. We have minimum times for classroom and pool (16 hours for each) plus OW checkouts. It ends up being a 48-50 hour course and usually is no more expensive than one you will see done in a weekend or two. We cover in addition to rescue, extensive dive planning, tables, and emergency deco procedures. The instructor is free to add and test on any added material in order to issue a card if it is felt that the additions will benefit the student. Like NAUI, SEI and SDI go by the "loved one" test as I call it. That being that if you would not be ok with the student you just certified diving with one of your loved ones and you or no other professional around you should not be handing them a certification card.

You will see posts on here stating that all basic OW classes are the same. This is a big lie. There are major differences in standards among the various agencies for OW training. So while the instructor does make the class the agency they cert through has a big hand in what they can and cannot do to achieve that.

[Bob DBF]

Other than Jim being right, You are going to be the instructor with the most impact on son's diving. You better read up, always be right, and set a good example. With that being said, should you succede, expect to be called on every mistake and have the kid be diving better than you in no time at all.

Good Luck



Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

[g1138]

Apart from what everyone has said already about choosing the right instructor etc etc, I think a Basic course that teaches some form of diver rescues is vital to making a safe diver. If anything it at least hits home that there are dangers to scuba diving.

PADI I know skips this part, NAUI covers it, SSI I'm not sure about.

[Wolfie]

I am SSI OW (from a different era) with PADI AOW (recently) I had OW in a college course that went into most likely greater depth of knowlege than the weekend course. I'd have to say that I learned much more through SSI than PADI. Perhaps its instructors. Perhaps it's an overall degradation of standards. I agree with others, Pick your instructor, not the agency.

[DivemasterDennis]

I think we are all partial to agencies with which are affiliated, especially the dive pros here on the board. Many instructors have credentials from more than one agency. Each has its advantages. I therefore suggest your two primary criteria, in this order, should be: 1. quality of instructor, and 2. convenience for transportation. I also liked what BobDBF had to say about your role as mentor. (even if he doesn't log his dives- shame on you, Bob) But y0ou are a mentor, not instructor. You might enjoy my blog post "To Parents of Junior Open Water Dive Students," which you can find on the blog page, then click on the most popular tab- I think it is still there.
DivemasterDennis

[LowDrag]

My wife and I are certifying thru SSI for OW. There has been no rescue information taught to us at this point. Our training is to get OW certified with 4 open water dives and completing all basic skills, complete 24 dives total and four specialties for AOW and then start working on Stress and Rescue.

[Jim Lapenta]

And you are ok with not having rescue skills? I would not allow anyone I cared about dive with someone who did not know how to support a diver at the surface, get control of a panicked diver, bring an unconscious diver up from depth, or tow an unconscious diver while stripping gear to shore or boat. All of these are in the ow classes I offer.

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[gcarter]

Talk about task loading - how much of the rescue skills do students retain from their OW with everything else they have to learn / pay attention to? When everyone seems to say do some diving between PADI OW and AOW, I wonder how much is practical to expect of an OW course.

Honest question. I don't debate the value of resuce skills, just wondering how much is too much and when.

[k ellis]

And you are ok with not having rescue skills? I would not allow anyone I cared about dive with someone who did not know how to support a diver at the surface, get control of a panicked diver, bring an unconscious diver up from depth, or tow an unconscious diver while stripping gear to shore or boat. All of these are in the ow classes I offer.

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One thing I can honestly comment about Jims statement here is that diving is similar to life in most anything we do. While it is one of the easiest and funnest things on earth to do its built up in stages. Most of the agencies we know like PADI and SSI are structured in a way as to get a diver in the water and diving as quickly as possible. With this in mind they teach the most important things up front such as how to use the inflator/deflator hose and how to clear a mask things are real simple for the majority of people.

The one bad thing though is they are so into drilling new divers on how to do a dive so they can start right away is most dont even discuss (to prevent panick I would assume) that there are more things that can go wrong then DCS. I too was complacent when I started diving and never gave a second thought about it. When I took rescue I did realize their were in fact more buckles on my BCD then I realized (Knew the shoulder buckles where there but never gave thought as to you why) also even with scuba gear we may loose sight of a panicked diver or even a panicked swimmer who by his own luck ended up in our diving area and attempt to rescue them head on. As rescue diver showed me and every one else there are simple ways to rescue another diver and do so safely and almost effortlessly.

I am proud of everything PADI has taught me but it was because I had the drive to keep learning. I do feel they should implement at least some rescue skills right off the bat. After all you would not tell a 16 year old whos never drove before the basics of here is the gas peddle, here is the brake and heres how they work. Take a drive around the parking lot with them and then get out and say ok shes all yours get out in the rush hour traffic and dont get hurt. (After 2 days of lecture and 2 days of parking lot practice)