What kind of gear do I really need?

[oldenred]

I am new to this and know it's an expensive hobby. I want quality gear but don't want to spend more than I have to. My plans are for diving up to 130' when my skill level gets there. Dive shop wants me to spend $3400 on their package of Scubapro gear. What are some good regulators, BCD's, octo's etc. that I can use with nitrox. Not trying to get buy bottom of the pile, quality stuff that will work well in water around 45 degrees to 80+ What brands and models are good? Thanks in advance.

 

[TSandM]

Well, depending on what's included with the SP package, that could be a fairly good deal.

For 45 degrees, you will be far better off in a dry suit. SP makes a neoprene one that, if it fits you, is very well priced. In addition, if you are diving in water that cold, you are going to need a LOT of weight, which makes something like a steel backplate a good choice for a BC, and ScubaPro makes one. It's not the one I would buy if I were shopping on the open market, but if it's part of a well-priced package, it's certainly usable. SP makes very good regs which are recognized and serviced around the world. Uwatec (a related brand) makes very usable computers.

On the other hand, if your shop is a SP dealer, they are probably also selling SubGear, which is SP's "lesser" brand. Their middle-of-the-road regulators will serve you just fine, and be considerably cheaper. If you are interested in backplates, there are a number of places you can buy them on line, including from the manufacturer (Deep Sea Supply) or from a variety of well-respected dealers (HOG).

The bottom line is that there are very few "bad" regulators, because liability doesn't permit companies to make them. There ARE off brands that are not well known, and might be difficult to get repaired if you are someplace exotic. BCs vary in type, but generally, the highest end BCs are pricey because of all kinds of extra stuff you don't need and eventually won't want. Exposure protection is not something to stint on, because if you aren't warm, you aren't happy, and hypothermia is actually pretty dangerous. In 45 degree water, unless your dives are brief, you are going to want to dive dry -- ESPECIALLY if you are diving deep, because neoprene compresses at depth and loses much of its insulating properties.

Take a look at the equipment subforums here. There is a wealth of information about various brands. Also check out the "What did you buy that you regret?" thread that I started years ago. If you can skim past all the people who say "Marriage license", or "engagement ring", you will learn a lot about people's dive gear choices, why they made them, and why they changed their minds.

 

[nolatom]

I've done fine with Scubapro, but any of the basic reputable brands will work for recreational-level diving. Call me naive, but I'd think you could get perfectly good gear for about half what you've been quoted.

About 15 years ago, I bought a Scubapro MKII first stage, R-190 second stage, Oceanic "hockey puck" alternate reg, basic Scubapro BC, nitrox-capable Oceanic computer, used wetsuit from a friend, and the usual mask, fins, booties, weight belt. All of it ran me about $1100 back then through my local dive shop, and I'm still diving with that gear today.

You can get "Cadillac" if you want. I got "Chevy Malibu" and it's still going strong.

Note I'm not a "gearhead". If the reg breathes and everything else works, just go diving. You'll learn a lot just doing it, and maybe someday you'll want, and get, the "perfect" gear. But "pretty good" gear has worked fine for me.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I seriously doubt $3400 is a good deal regardless of what's in the package.

If I were to try and outfit a new single tank OW diver:

*Used SS backplate, STA (if needed for wing chosen), cambands, and one-piece basic harness: $150-$200ish (these are just pieces of metal and some webbing - you can tell their quality and condition just by looking at them and warranty and service/support are not important later on, so buy used and save 50-75%).

*New 30ish LB wing from Halcyon, DSS, or Oxycheq (pretty much in that order, depending on budget): $300-$500 (used wings are simple to screen and repair but you are new to this whole thing - a solid warranty will ease your mind should you get a defective wing). Halcyon has numerous dealers and will also work with you directly; the owner of DSS will work with you directly (and lecture you at great length, but that won't hurt you at this point); Oxycheq support is hit or miss (to be nice about it) but they make great wings.

*New Atomic Z2 yoke unsealed first stage and two Z2 second stages, plus a 5' hose and a 22" hose + necklace: around $700 for regs+octo (buy them wherever you find the best deal online, so long as it's an authorized dealer...because you can always call Atomic directly if there's a problem, no dealer required. You won't have to service them often; AA suggests every 2 years but most of us just monitor them ourselves and only service/send for service when they show signs of needing it. A reputable LDS will do an annual inspection for you for a very nominal fee, though doing it yourself is not hard and doesn't require any real disassembly. AA's warranty is not continent on servicing on their schedule, either.). Add another $100 or so for a good brass & glass SPG on a 26" HP hose.

If you want to spend a few hundred more, get the B2 and sell the swivle; if you want to spend a lot more, get the ST1 and sell the swivle. I consider the Ti regs a waste of money compared to the ST1, but whatever you like. For the love of all that's holy, do not buy any reg because it has "free parts for life" Because of your type of diving, I say skip sealing and diaphram regs. Finally, I should note that buying a good used Atomic reg set plus a separate 2nd stage on eBay or here and then having AA do a factory rebuild on it might save you some money. Not nearly as much as buying used and just inspecting yourself, but it gives you basically a new AA reg for about 2/3 the price after factoring in used prices and AA factory service. Depends on your budget, really.

Sub-Total: $1,250-$1,500, and you have great support for everything except the metal hardware that makes up the BP/harness part of your BCD.

Computer...it's your call. If you want to buy once, cry once, get a Shearwater Petrel, put it in Rec OC mode, and you're set forever. Another amazing company that you can deal with directly, not going through your LDS. Still, there's no need for you to spend $850 for a computer! Just realize that if you're going to go much above $300-$400, I think you may as well go whole hog. There are lots of perfectly fine rec computers in the $200-$400 range, but that's about where I'd set my limit for a non-Shearwater computer.

Your LDS is a great place to get gas fills, have tanks inspected/hydroed, and get classes. I don't see much point to using them for anything else. YMMV.

 

[Frosty]

Frankly IMO you don't need a darn thing.
You should be supplied everything you need to learn to dive by the people training you.
I'd say at this stage just enjoy the training and the first few dives in rental gear. From there if you decide that scuba is for you then maybee buy a complete package. maybee start with mask,snorkle and fins.
I say spend the money on the diving to start with.

 

[TotDoc]

Frankly IMO you don't need a darn thing.

Although I absolutely agree with the gear choices Dr Lecter described, I think kazbanz is onto something here, too. Dive shops do a good job convincing you that you need your own gear right away, but unless you are going to be doing a LOT of diving, it might be better just to rent for a while and try some things out. Although I really enjoy diving my own gear, I really do enjoy using rental equipment now and then and not needing to worry about cleaning, maintaining, or storing it after the dive is done. Also, all the money you are spending on gear could go a long way towards booking lots of diving...even if you are paying for the rental gear!

When I first started diving, I bought some used gear from a friend who was getting out of diving. Based on my experience with that gear, I decided I wanted certain other features on my equipment, and let my experience guide me into what other gear I purchased. I had debated buying brand spankin new gear right out of the gate, but I am glad I got the chance to try some other things first before I ended up buying what I THOUGHT I wanted, rather than what I later LEARNED I needed.

That said, if you DO go out and buy gear, I will offer you the following:
First: It is never too early to get into a backplate and wing setup like Dr Lecter described. Not only is it the best configuration for diving, it also ends up being much cheaper than a lot of the blinged out BCs being pushed by a lot of dive shops. PLEASE don't buy into the idea that your BC needs lots of pockets or D rings to be functional. Simple really is best here, and it doesn't get any more simple and streamlined than a BP/W

Second: a nice middle of the road reg set will serve you well for a long time. I love the suggestion about atomics for your regs...even their lowest of the line breaths as well as their high end reg. It just lacks some features and materials that you really wont miss - ESPECIALLY if you are just getting started. I have gone all the way through instructor using a low/mid line aqualung reg that was part of the beginner set I bought used from my friend. Sure, I'd like a fancy new reg set, because buying new gear is fun...but despite my desires, I still haven't found a real reason to replace it.

Finally: Buying a non air integrated wrist mount computer is a REALLY good idea...even if it's the only piece of gear that you own! Not every rental set you get will have a computer, so having one of your own that is not attached to anything but your wrist is a really nice thing to have while you are exploring your gear options. Also, it makes it really easy to bring a critical piece of gear with you if you do any travel diving. The recommendation of buying a Petrel out of the gate is a phenomenal one...I have spent a fair bit on computers to this point, just to find that I reached a level of diving that I want to ditch all the prior ones and get a Petrel of my own. Had someone given me that advice in the beginning, I could have just bought once and cried once. It would have been cheaper in the long run, too.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your decision...but just make sure that whatever you do, you get out there and dive dive dive!

 

[eelnoraa]

Since this is "New Divers and Those Considering Diving" section, I will agree that you do NOT buy anything except the 5 necessary items for the class. They are mask, snorkel, fins, gloves, boots. Dive shop should provide rental gears for your class. Then think about getting other gears at that point.

For mask, most important is the fit. So pick one that fit regardless of brands. Preferable low volumn. No need tri-windows or purge.
For gloves and boots, get what fit and proper thickness
For snorkel, buy the cheapest.
For fins, start with something basic, or even used. No need to spend a lot for the first pair.

Again, don't buy regulator, BCD before you get certified.

 

[sphyrnidus]

@ Dr Lecter: By leaving out a lot of equipement like exposure suit, fins, mask etc you make it sound cheaper than it actually is. I'm not in to prices in the USA, but I do dive in cold water and my suit was quite expensive.

But I do agree that doing your training and first few dives therafter with rental stuff is wiser.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

For what the op is being asked to pay I could go into the sb classifieds and outfit four divers. Including exposure suits. Possibly even put them in dry suits. But then I know what I'm looking for. For a new or newer diver the real.danger in dropping that kind of cash is getting things that they will find they have or want to replace in a year. Better to rent other than the basics and get opinions from those he is most likely to be diving with that don't work for a shop. See what they use and find out why they use it. Look at features as both necessary items and flash that serve no real function. d rings are a good example. more than four or five? Flash. Fixed? May not be where you really need them.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Colliam7]

Dive shop wants me to spend $3400 on their package of Scubapro gear. What are some good regulators, BCD's, octo's etc. that I can use with nitrox. Not trying to get buy bottom of the pile, quality stuff that will work well in water around 45 degrees to 80+ What brands and models are good?

There seem to be a few assumptions made in some of the responses. I am not clear on the context in which the OP is asking questions, and reluctant to make too many assumptions myself. To the OP:

You state you are new to this. But, are you already certified and looking to buy your first set of personal gear? Or, are you just starting your OW training, and want to complete it in your own gear?

What is the shop proposing to sell you for $3400? That is quite a bit of money, but depending on what is in their 'package', there might be reasonable value (not saying it is necessary to spend anywhere near that much, just commenting on value for the $).

The number of brand lines that would meet your needs for cold water recreational diving is extensive. Scubapro gear is quite good, but so is Apeks, Halcyon, Zeagle, Atomics, Dive Rite, etc., etc., etc. The point is, gear selection and purchase is better influenced by performance goals than by specific brand. For the newer diver, gear selection and purchase is also aided by patience, and accumulation of experience. I do see a number of newer divers who want to buy their own gear right away. And personal gear ownership probably encourages the newer diver to dive more, and that is good. But, I usually encourage newer divers to try different equipment before taking the purchase plunge. In fact, in our shop a number of us regularly loan personal gear to newer (and established, for that matter) divers so they can try it out before buying.

Yes, diving is not an activity well suited to the faint of wallet. But, it doesn't have to be exorbitantly expensive, either. There is nothing wrong with buying in an orderly, step-wise manner, renting gear as you gain experience, and using that process to try different brands / models / configurations. And, the optimal order may depend upon the diver. TSandM recommended a drysuit - great comment, since you mention 45 degree water! I bought a drysuit within the first year of becoming certified - I knew I wanted to dive year-round, e.g. in colder months, in local quarries. To this day, 12 years later, I tell students / friends / other divers / customers that my drysuit was the single best investment I have ever made in dive gear (and I am still diving that drysuit).

You have already seen in some of the comments that there are divergent views on the value of using a local shop, and I don't see much value in reviving that issue in this thread. What I like about 'local' is that you can have discussions about gear, see it, feel it, try it on (for 'fit' items), probably rent it, possibly borrow it, to see what works for you.