how to handle panicky divers in group

[ballastbelly]

a (OOA) panicky diver is the most dangerous thing you can encounter on a dive, much worse than a shark, electric eel etc.

when you look at couses like the padi OW, is there anything there that would weed out a diver who is likely to not follow emergency procedures & is likely to create a hazard for his instructor/fellow students during the 1st open water dives?

maybe there should be a test like that done for military helitcopter pilots where they dunk them inside a mock cockpit strapped in their flight chair in the dark?

 

[Redshift]

Well, when I did my course, we had some exercises where we were all swimming around in the (not sure, but 5 or 6m deep) pool and the instructors would sneak up behind us and close our gas, pull the regs and masks off our faces, all things that could happen during a dive. We then had to deal with the problem and retrieve the reg, ask for gas, place the mask back on and empty it... Although in a controlled environment, I guess this already can give some indication as how a diver will react.

 

[rongoodman]

That type of harrassment hasn't been done for many years un recreational courses.

 

[Malpaso]

instructors would sneak up behind us and close our gas, pull the regs and masks off our faces

We do similar drills during OW class pool sessions, but with specific limitations. We, the instructors/helpers, NEVER create two problems at once. We will, at random, pull a reg out, mask off, fin off, but never simultaneously. However, we will have a student remove their own mask, do a reg recovery, and replace and clear their mask. We make sure that every drill done with a mask on, is also done with a mask off. The theory being that creating multiple problems during training, without preparing them for it, is too psychologically disturbing to a student, and may make turn them off of SCUBA completely.

 

[Corlett]

Myself as a student diver, I agree entirely with what you are saying :cool3:

With all due respect to PADI OW Padi means Put Another Dollar IN lol lol
I have passed my open water and am doing the advanced, but Thank God I have a very strict instructor that says `` I pass when she says I pass, not when the books say´´ my instructor wants me ready for any possible scenario and wants me to actually have to live it not read about it..

Theoretically you can learn anything and be the best, but in practice some `` experts ´´ might as well go home.
Lets not forget diving is dangerous and you have to react in seconds and calmly, just like boxing, ...123...123....123....123. untill you can do it without having to think about it..

Personally I think it is too easy now a days to get the gear and certification and some `` students ´´ become instructors after as little as 100 dives....

No offense, only my personal opinion...

 

[TSandM]

Everybody has a panic threshold. Even the student who breezes through class can encounter something unexpected that sets them off. My only experience with a panic-stricken buddy was someone with about 50 dives (and GUE Fundies, I think) whose mask flooded unexpectedly, and he just lost it.

So no, I don't think anything can or should be done to try to "weed out" all the divers who might panic. We can definitely identify people whose anxiety level is very high, and work with them to lower it, or counsel them out of the activity (which we do, from time to time). But we can't possibly refuse certification to anyone who might panic later, because that's all of us.

 

[Jim-SAR]

ballastbelly - I'm not sure of your experience/certification level, but when you work your way up through Rescue Diver, you'll learn all about handling paniced divers. As far as weeding them out during OW, I don't think you'll be able to make a good judgement call at that point in their learning path. Trying to predict future performance based on current observations doesn't work well.

When I did my OW class in 2003, I was "losing it" when I had to flood my mask. Not removing it...just flooding it. I was worked with one-on-one to get me through it enough to complete my pool work, but then when I did my open water dives down in Mexico, the anxiety/fear came back, although I was able to push through it and get certified. If my Instructor would have given up on me, then I would have never been certified, but he didn't and I've made it through to, a PADI Master Scuba Diver, an ERDI Public Safety Diver (Black Water Operations), and I'm progressing towards becoming an SDI Divemaster.

Thanks to those that NEVER gave up on me, or thought I was to panicy. :cool2:

 

[boulderjohn]

There is a very sobering story posted on another forum about the death of a pioneering cave diver, man with skill and experience few people will ever match. He went OOA and panicked, and his panicked actions very nearly killed the diver who was trying to save him. I agree with TSand M--there is nothing you can do to guarantee that someone will not panic if things get bad enough.

As for the harassment during training such has been described here, to my knowledge that has never been a standard part of any agency training. A history of NAUI written by Al Tillman, NAUI instructor #1, describes the first true training session in Houston in 1960 during which they were surprised to see instructors doing this. His conclusion suggests that he believed that the people doing the harassment were more motivated by the fun they were having doing it than by a belief it was helping students.

My profession is educational theory, and I find these activities dubious at best in their educational value. I won't go into the details of why I don't see the value, but suffice it to say that whatever value it may have is overshadowed by the danger. Let's say you rip a student's mask off at 10 feet of depth in the pool and discover that, by golly, he did indeed panic and sprint to the surface while holding his breath. So, will you feel a great sense of satisfaction in your role as an instructor as you remove his corpse from the pool?

 

[Akimbo]

That type if harrassment hasn't been done for many years un recreational courses.

True, but it is effective — not politically correct but effective at teaching panic control.

More accurately, working up to the final “harassment dive” is a process that provides training and habituation to manage panic. Many people are under the mistaken impression that they just unleash harassment during the final pool session… that’s not how it works. They start harassing you slowly so by the final day in the pool you are well prepared. Still intimidated as hell, but well prepared.

Unfortunately, running a class like that outside the military would result in assault charges in the US today. It is also horribly labor intensive and requires a lot more skill to keep from hurting people than you would think.

 

[rx7diver]

That type if harrassment hasn't been done for many years un recreational courses.

Rongoodman,

I personally know of several places in different states in the US, where this type of training continues. Despite what some professional educational theorists may think, I personally think this type of training has real merit. Indeed, I believe I have personally benefitted from this type of open water certification training. It needn't be done in the deep end of the pool. And it can be done relatively safely, progressively (edit: as Akimbo points out, above), over the course of a long, thorough course. (Perhaps not in a two-day course, though.)

Safe Diving,

rx7diver