Equalizing Issues for Younger Divers

[dundjinnx]

Hi All,

I am looking for some guidance on helping my daughters learn to equalize their ears. They both started a PADI OW class this past weekend and had issues with this. I studied with them quite a bit before the class and they did fine on all the classroom stuff and passed their final test without and issue, but could not complete the pool time. Unfortunately the class was all adults beside them and the instructor just had to move on for the rest of the class. They are going back in the evening this week to work 1:1 with the instructor and I am hoping to help them prepare for it. I have never really had trouble equalizing using the Valsalva method, but read up on the other methods in the divers guide to equalization to show them other options.

The instructor only showed them the Valsalva and to just wiggle their jaw left and right, which I didn't find on any guide. I asked the instructor about the Toynbee method, but they said it could be dangerous to swallow air and they didn't recommend or teach it. Their only suggestion was to try some vented ear plugs and continue trying the Valsalva method. I have a few other issues with how they were being taught that I will mention later, but first I just wanted to get some feedback on if the Toynbee method is truly dangerous? I haven't found anything supporting that online. In fact, I find more things stating the Valsalva is more dangerous if anything.

Other issues I saw were they were not being instructed to look up, stretch their neck, or descend with their feet first, all of which supposedly make equalizing easier. The instructor advised if the vented earplugs don't help on the next class then they both must have medical issues and needed to see an ENT. While I accept that 1 may have something going on, logic tells me that both of them having an ENT issue that only impacts diving (they equalize their ears in airplanes and ski trips) is unlikely. I suspect either they don't understand what they are really supposed to feel or they aren't being taught a way that works for them. But that is just my opinion as the parent. Near the end of the 1st session, one of them said they heard a slight squeak in their ear and the instructor told them they couldn't continue then and had to come back the following day. She wasn't in any pain or anything and it just seemed weird. Reading through some other posts on the board people reports squeaking, popping, clicking, or hissing sounds as they equalize, as it just varies per person. Is there a specific bad noise I am not aware of? I would appreciate some feedback on if I am just being a parent or if this doesn't sound right to others.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

How old are they? One thing I don't like to do is mix kids with adults in OW class unless they are clearly able to keep up. Better to have them separate. It's not uncommon for kids to have issues equalizing. They are still forming and the Eustachian tubes can be a little stiff. The worst thing to do is to make them keep trying it with any kind of force. The instructor also needs to be patient enough to have them try equalizing every foot or even six inches or so. I have also found that kids are more apt to complain of discomfort after a session that has a lot of depth changes. For that reason I try to minimize those and keep the sessions short. As soon as one starts to complain about being uncomfortable the session is over. Not having them do multiple classes in short succession also helps. They need time to recover. As far as noises go my ears squeak, hiss, pop, crackle, etc. when equalizing depending on the day. What they don't want to feel is ANY sharp pains or sudden influx of water. That is very bad.

I also would not suggest vented plugs starting out. Better to delay training until they are older.

As far as Toynbee I don't see any real issue with it if it works. They are not going to swallow any real amount of air to cause issues. It's just another technique to open the tubes. I'd even suggest trying it while stretching the neck. I sometimes use that method and it is easier for me in a horizontal position. Swallowing, wiggling the jaw, valsalva, etc.. Wiki has a decent entry on equalizing.

Whatever method is tried it has to be done gently and often. As soon as they start under the water. If nothing works an ENT might be called for. As would waiting until they are older.

---------- Post added October 8th, 2014 at 04:47 PM ----------

Descending feet first may make things easier but it can be hard habit to break them of unless taught to start with the feet first and get horizontal in the first 5 or 10 feet from the beginning.

 

[Hawkwood]

This may seem like a "dumb" comment, but bare with me. Are they feeling discomfort? That was not clear from your post (at least to me).

Something I have noticed is the occasional student who seems to get the impression that they have to feel "something" as they are equalizing. If they have that impression, and they don't feel anything as they are equalizing and descending, they assume they are not equalizing. It becomes a vicious circle.

We warn students about discomfort, etc. However, if you are equalizing early and often, you might not feel any discomfort, but you are still equalized.

Does this make sense to you?

If they are having trouble, and the pool has a sloped bottom to the deep end, suggest to the Instructor they descend by swimming across the pool, zig-zagging from one see to the other until they get to the deep end. I've started to do this with students who are truly having difficulties, and it slows down the decent and makes it very gradual. Seems to help.

 

[dundjinnx]

Thanks for Jim. They are 11 and 12. I really didn't want to have them in an OW class with adults, but it seems that is the way the dive shops around here do it. I guess just not enough volume for them to have non-adult classes. The classes in the area all seem to be 4 day classes. 2 days in a row with half class time and half pool time (about 3 hours each), then 2 days in open water dives. My daughters didn't mention any sharp pain or influx of water, and neither really complained of any discomfort the following day, just disappointment for not keeping up with the class.

I have been working with them outside of the pool just practicing pre-pressurizing. They seem to do fine outside the water, but I took the youngest to a neighbor's pool with our gear and they still struggled. She said she couldn't swallow with the regulator in their mouth and the valsalva method didn't feel like it was doing anything. She was getting frustrated with it so we started working on other things like taking clearing the mask, removing the regulator, & removing the mask. While she was swimming without her mask, she decided to try to equalize and said it worked. I am not sure if it was just dumb luck or if maybe the mask is making it difficult. I know the mask has a good seal, but looking at it the nose piece is giant on her nose. I wouldn't think that would make a difference as long as she is able to get a good pinch on her nose though. When we practice again tomorrow I was going to have her try just using her swim goggles for a while and see if she is able to equalize that way.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

As Jim mentioned, children are know to have issues with eustachian tubes. That is one reason why little kids get so many ear in fuctions (as my kids used to call them).

I taught my kids to clear their ears whn very young. As others have said it is essential that they don't try too hard and avoid all pain. If it hurts stop.

One medicine you can probably give them is menthol cough drop. This is a very low risk option and has helped me and many others.

I taught the kids to clear their ears by placing their ear up against mine and then they can hear my ear squeak and clear. Can't do that with outher people's kids, but for you own it helps them to understand what it might sound like.

So after sucking on a cough drop for 15 minutes, they should try to clear their ears gently with you. You can do the ear to ear thing and try to listen if they are getting any air into the ear. My kids seemed to be overly careful and were hesitant to blow hard enough to get air past the tube for the initial tries.

They should practice a little a few times a day without going to the pool and this may open up their tubes.

You latest post popped up when i was writting mine. Another thing the kids do wrong is they think they have to pinch their nose and this is hard in some masks. I taught them to push the mask nose pocket up from the bottom to seal the nose,, different than a squeeze.

Lastly, if they are doing it in the air and having trouble in the water.. that is fine.. they will learn, just give the time. The best way to practice is wih no scuba gear, just snorkel gear.. I think making them into great snorkelers is the BEST way to start teaching kids to scuba dive. It gives them confidence and reduces the chance they will bolt for the surface (which can be fatal).

 

[dundjinnx]

Hi Hawkwood, They say nothing hurts, but they also have a hard time describing the pressure. Like you, I sometimes wonder if they are expecting to feels something instead of feel nothing when they equalize. We have worked on the different techniques out of the water, but when you pre-pressurize outside of the pool you can feel it in your ears until you clear it. So I have tried to explain that in the water you keep doing the techniques and descending down, the absence of discomfort means it is working. If you feel discomfort then its not and you need to ascend slightly and redo it.

Thanks for the tip on zig-zagging, I will have to try it with them. I have been practicing with the 11 year old the last 2 days in our neighbors pool. She has always been a fish in the water and this is frustrating her alot. She is not nervous and does everything else just fine underwater, she just can't equalize.

---------- Post added October 8th, 2014 at 06:44 PM ----------

Thank for the menthol cough drop suggestion and the ear to ear thing. We are definitely working on it outside of the pool as well now. They both say they can feel it in both ears outside the pool, but when they get in the water they have difficulty.

 

[Itsacon]

DAN has a very good article regarding ears and equalizing: You can find it here.

Aside from that, I also have trouble useing Valsalva or Toynbee under water. The second sometimes works, but is made harder because your mouth dries out if you breath compressed air for a while.

For me the best thing is still a slow descent and breathing out through my nose (the back pressure from the mask turns this into a slow Valsalva).

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Everything I learned to know about clearing ears was trial and error. I rarely have trouble clearing. Here are the tips:

1. Clear early and often. Start at the surface
2. Clear gently, whatever method you use
3. I prefer a "fingerless valsalva maneuver- no nose pinch, and also find an occasional nasal exhale works wonders ( but be prepared to clear your mask)
4. Swallowing is an alternative that works for some, not all. There is no danger factor, except burping. Everyone swallows air during dives.
5. A head wiggle or tipping can help too- gentle, intentional movement.
6. As mentioned above, many many divers are preoccupied and ove-roccupied with clearing, and do too much , resulting the opposite of the intended effect. Don't over think it. No one has to "wander" if their ears are clear or not- your ears will tell you in no uncertain terms.
7. Always remember if there is a genuine clearing issue that SLOWLY ascending, and I mean really slowly, will relive pain/pressure Once there is relief, resume the descent, again, slowly.
8. Head up, head down, and horozontal descents have not seemed to have impacted my ability or that of my wife Debbie, to clear.
9. Finally, I have had situations, a few, where people have had easier clearing by holding their reg in their mouth in a more relaxed attitude, as opposed to clenching. I have no idea of the science or magic of this, but I'll add it to the list. Good luck to the kids out there.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Hawkwood]

...
7. Always remember if there is a genuine clearing issue that SLOWLY ascending, and I mean really slowly, will relive pain/pressure Once there is relief, resume the descent, again, slowly.
...

This is a key point that I failed to mention.

Occasionally there will be the student who ascends way too much to relieve the pressure. They basically have to start the process again.

 

[dundjinnx]

Dennis, what is the fingerless valsalva maneuver? Since the regular is pinching your nose and blowing against it, just seems fingerless would be a nasal exhale.