Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 205,000 divers from around the world discussing all things related to Scuba Diving. To gain full access to ScubaBoard (and make this large box go away) you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 5,500,000 posts.
Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
Post your own photos or view from well over 100,000 user submitted images.
Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
a republic generally is synonymous with representative democracy
James Madison, for example, defined a republic as a representative democracy as opposed to direct democracy
I second this
re⋅pub⋅lic
a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.
Is that true for the US? Yes
representative democracy
a type of democracy in which the citizens delegate authority to elected representatives
Hey, why don't we cut out all foreign aid for a couple of years to help ourselves?
WE have to fend for ourselves, why can't other countries?
Charity is a wonderful thing. However, when resources are taken from me by force, it isn't charity.
The problem with GM is that they, and the other auto manufacturers, continued to try to conduct business in a global economy with 1940's, 50's and 60's management and marketing attitudes and models.
Of course the labor unions didn't help, either . . . building cars at $10/hr. and selling them to a population that makes $5/hr. Bad economics when compared to foreign vehicles made at a substantially lower wage rate.
the K
No, GM has not been using 1940's, 50's and 60's management and marketing attitudes and models. The unions are a problem but the other major problem has been government.
Now the government owns them and by-golly they're going to make more small cars...LOL but still nobody wants the useless little pieces of junk. Look on the road. what do you see?
Of course, they're making the standards more stringent so now that we the government own GM it will be us losing all the money. I liked it better when folks who baught GM stock of their own free will (remember that?) were the ones losing money.
It's almost funny. They're going run GM with my money, the cost of cars is going to go up so I probably won't be able to afford one and, if I can get one, it'll be a little piece of junk that doesn't meet my needs.
How is that hope and change working out for you anyway? LOL
Charity is a wonderful thing. However, when resources are taken from me by force, it isn't charity.
Agreed. The waste of 1.6 Billion Dollars a day in Iraq has been criminal.
Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Now the government owns them and by-golly they're going to make more small cars...LOL but still nobody wants the useless little pieces of junk. Look on the road. what do you see?
I see way too many people getting their "facts" from Rush Limbaugh.
Hey, why don't we cut out all foreign aid for a couple of years to help ourselves?
As long as we keep our nose out of their business too, I would say that is an acceptable step. We both know that trying to run other countries is one of the top reasons we in the USA are having issues now.
The problem with GM is that they, and the other auto manufacturers, continued to try to conduct business in a global economy with 1940's, 50's and 60's management and marketing attitudes and models.
Of course the labor unions didn't help, either . . . building cars at $10/hr. and selling them to a population that makes $5/hr. Bad economics when compared to foreign vehicles made at a substantially lower wage rate.
I disagree that GM or any of the others are using aged management tactics, I completely disagree that the labor unions are at issue.
In the early years the profits from Manufacturing and Production Corporations the bulk of the profits went into the founders pockets. Labor unions, at least prior to political corruption, forced the corporations to return more of the profits to the people who actually earned it.
Over the years, another player took control: The investor. As more and more looked to make money by doing nothing (which is a smart thing if done in balance with an actual production) a power shift occurred. CEOs began focusing on quieting the demand for more and more return from entities that actually did nothing to produce profit. Instead of concentrating on maintaining a healthy and balanced company, profit became the sole goal.
That means some items that insured health in the future but require heavy cost to benefit ratios were removed to show profits now. The way a company was rated shifted from the quality of product produced to the health of the employee and now it is focused on the quarterly profit. There are just to many trying to get rich quick to sustain that focus. All those hands in the cookie jar only lead to crumbs.
I would love to have a 400% return on my investment, however, the truth is; if my money is still there 20 years from now and I have made 1% then I made a smarter choice than if I spent it today on a consumable.
While the desire to have money make money is intelligent, we have to remember that currency is actually a concept and not real. When we solely rely on nothing producing nothing we can't be upset when the cupboard is bare. There has to be a valued production, produced by a caring person. That person deserves the fruits of their efforts. It is why they work, to provide for their needs, wants, and desires.
The funny thing is, most have no desire for riches. They could earn 40 million in their lifetime and would spend it all. Those that hoard it would still get it in the end... It is never about the money.. It is about the power over another... Cure that... and you have a free country. GOOD LUCK!
Of course there is always the chance I am just stirring the pot for the sake of discussion too!
Last edited by Hallmac; June 27th, 2009 at 11:11 AM.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... it takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
Albert Einstein
Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Charity is a wonderful thing. However, when resources are taken from me by force, it isn't charity.
Originally Posted by IceBergSlim
Agreed. The waste of 1.6 Billion Dollars a day in Iraq has been criminal.
If you have evidence of criminal activity, you should probably present it. However, a large part of our tax burden (foreign and domestic) amounts to "charity" by force of law and it's getting worse every day.
A signature I recently noticed here on the board says it well...something to the effect of "Work hard. Millions of irresponsible, unmotivated Americans are counting on you.".
Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Now the government owns them and by-golly they're going to make more small cars...LOL but still nobody wants the useless little pieces of junk. Look on the road. what do you see?
Originally Posted by IceBergSlim
I see way too many people getting their "facts" from Rush Limbaugh.
How did Rush Limbaugh get into this?. I haven't often had the chance to hear him myself. Does he agree with me? I do know what I need and want in a vehicle, what I'm able/willing to pay for it and I know what I see on the road. Additionally, I spent over 10 years as an engineer in the automotive industry.
Last edited by MikeFerrara; June 29th, 2009 at 10:56 AM.
Simply put, government regulation is one factor that has effected product mix decisions, costs and, therefore, profitability. It doesn't make sense to tell someone how to run their business and then refuse to take responsibility for the outcome.
Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Charity is a wonderful thing. However, when resources are taken from me by force, it isn't charity.
If you have evidence of criminal activity, you should probably present it. However, a large part of our tax burden (foreign and domestic) amounts to "charity" by force of law and it's getting worse every day.
.
Perhaps it's not criminal?
It's only Nine Billion US Dollars lost. Mostly in 100 dollar notes stacked and wrapped and handed out to anyone in Iraq that were willing to sell their neighbors into slavery.
re⋅pub⋅lic
a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.
Is that true for the US? Yes
representative democracy
a type of democracy in which the citizens delegate authority to elected representatives
Is that true for the US? Yes
Not quite. In a strict democracy (direct or representative), majority rules. In a republic, majority rule is balanced against the rule of law which can protect individual and property rights against the will of a majority.
It's only Nine Billion US Dollars lost. Mostly in 100 dollar notes stacked and wrapped and handed out to anyone in Iraq that were willing to sell their neighbors into slavery.
Your point is taken but 9 billion doesn't seem very significant compared to what's looming on the horizon now and what I was referring to was the forced redistribution of wealth.
I'm glad you mentioned slavery because with each dollar taken the individual loses liberty. Current trends have us quickly becoming slaves of the state. When the fruits of my labor are taken from me, I'm just a slave.
As Jefferson said "Government big enough to provide everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." He was right and we're living it.
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Originally Posted by H2Andy
Reply With Quote
It is never about the money.. It is about the power over another... Cure that... and you have a free country. GOOD LUCK!
