Flex Fuel?

[DandyDon]

Anyone using E85 in their cars? We have a station in Lubbock supplying it now, but it's only 10% cheaper - yet I've read the mileage will be 15-25% lower. If true, I'd lose - but maybe I will try a tank and see? Maybe they have the winter E70 blend, and if so maybe it will work better.

[dmoore19]

Around here most places have 10% added already. You have to look hard to find a place that isn't blended with 10%. There is 30% less energy in ethanol when compared to gasoline.

Is your car ready for FlexFuel? If not you really need to stay away from the E85. It can destroy all kinds of elastomers used in gaskets and o rings etc.

Even with 10% blend my mileage drops when compared to the regular gasoline.

[gypsyjim]

I think I may have invented flex fuel. Too often my '47 Indian Chief motorcycle seemed to run out of gas, and require an alternate form shoulder and leg powered propulsion!

[DandyDon]

Around here most places have 10% added already. You have to look hard to find a place that isn't blended with 10%. There is 30% less energy in ethanol when compared to gasoline.

Is your car ready for FlexFuel? If not you really need to stay away from the E85. It can destroy all kinds of elastomers used in gaskets and o rings etc.

Even with 10% blend my mileage drops when compared to the regular gasoline.

I've seen the notices about 10% alcohol, but this is 70-85%. Yeah, my car is Flex Fuel rated, 2007 Impala with the corresponding VIN plus a FlexFuel tag on the back so it won't hurt to try it.

It's probably more appealing in countries with $10/gallon gas, if their E85 or E70 is more than 25% cheaper.

We have an ethanol plant here that ships out trainloads at a time. They recently got a grant to explore alternate sources for making alcohol, after surviving a bankruptcy.

[JBRES1]

I drive an Explorer Sport Trak that is able to use Flex fuel.
The E85 needs to be more than 15% less than the standard gas for me to break even on the mileage.

I do run the E85 thru my truck from time to time to help keep the lines and tank clean.

Note: My oxygen sensor doesn't like when I go between the 2 types of fuels. The check engine light comes on when I go back to normal gas after
I run a few tanks for E85.
So , I need to re-set the cars computer to get the light to turn off.
Jim breslin

[DandyDon]

I drive an Explorer Sport Trak that is able to use Flex fuel.
The E85 needs to be more than 15% less than the standard gas for me to break even on the mileage.

I do run the E85 thru my truck from time to time to help keep the lines and tank clean.

Note: My oxygen sensor doesn't like when I go between the 2 types of fuels. The check engine light comes on when I go back to normal gas after
I run a few tanks for E85.
So , I need to re-set the cars computer to get the light to turn off.
Jim breslin

Interesting. Why do you think E85 cleans lines, and how do you reset the computer?

[JBRES1]

The E85 , so I have been told will remove any moisture from the tank, and that it removes any varnish build up in the tank.

To reset the computer, I turn the key to the on position, but not far enough to start the car. I then remove the battery cable for about 1 minute.
Turn the ignition key off, and re-attach the battery cable and start the car. I don't know if this is re-setting the computer or not, but it turns off the check engine light.

Jim breslin

[mrfixitchapman]

Flex-fuel vehicles are E85 ready. E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline instead of the 10% blend in common usage today. Alcohol is a less complex hydrocarbon fuel than gasoline, and since the heat released from the combustion process is a direct result of breaking the hydrogen-carbon bonds in the fuel, when you combust a gallon of ethanol you release less heat than if you had combusted a gallon of gasoline. The same amount of alcohol as gasoline gets you less miles driven. Here's the HOWEVER: However, since the electronic control system is optimized for the E85 blend, you don't pay as big a miles-per-gallon penalty as you would if the electronic control system was not optimized for E85.

So. If you want to use E85 in a flex-fuel vehicle you can go ahead and fill up at the yellow-nozzle pump. Your gas mileage will not be as good as if you were burning straight gasoline. Remember, too, that the flex-fuel system will adapt to any blend of gasoline/alcohol form 0% alcohol up to 85%. It's made to do that. You do not have to do any adjustments.

NOW: About that 'check engine' light - Ethanol has oxygen molecules in its composition. Gasoline does not. If your car is experiencing a 'lean operating condition' while using E85, well, that's not unusual. What IS unusual would be the condition that does not automatically adjust the injector fuel delivery to adapt to different fuel mixtures. We pretty often find a dirt-filled fuel filter is a contributing culprit. Which brings us to the NEXT feature of alcohol as a fuel.

Alcohol is a great solvent and cleaner. Since it is so good at cleaning your fuel system it will dissolve all the tiny bits of residue in the fuel system, pick it up and deliver it to the fuel filter. Hence, we see more restricted fuel filters on cars that switch back and forth between alcohol blend and straight gasoline.

And all of this ignores the question of using food grain for driving our cars around. Alcohol as a motor fuel is a very old idea, most of the time in years past the inconvenience of alcohol was the determining factor in it's popularity. Since alcohol will absorb moisture up to a point then it separates again, you can find yourself trying to run your engine on the water in the bottom of the tank. Not a happy scene, especially in cold weather when the water can and will turn into ice in your fuel system.

Modern fuel manufacturing and transportation has reduced water contamination, but we still see it in vehicles that are stored a long time between uses. Those cars benefit from a 0% ethanol blend.

Aren't you glad you asked?

DC

[Mark Derail]

E85 is a joke. The Gov't had to do something with all those corn subsidies.
So why not waste precious water at the same time?

Adding alcohol to gasoline doesn't make it burn more efficient or reduce negative effects out of your tailpipe. It will burn hotter and may, for one tank, "clean" your engine somewhat. Just buy a 2$ additive that does it better.

Co2, carbon dioxide is the least "bad" thing on what comes out of a tailpipe. Gasoline is a complex molecule; natural gas is a simple molecule.
If all our cars were powered by Propane or Natural Gas, we would pollute 99% less.

Alcohol - the more pure it is - the less "energy" per volume. So 15% in regular gasoline makes the same "us gallon" travel less miles.
Same is true of Premium versus Regular - less energy per volume.
Diesel has the most energy per volume - 20% + above regular.

So when you see a Jetta TDI VW that does 65 MPG - you have to look deeper.
- US gallons or Imperial gallons! Not the same volume.
- 1 US gallon = 1.201 Imperial - a 20% difference!
- Diesel has 20% more energy per volume
- Makes the Jetta TDI "seem" 40% more efficient than a Honda Civic 4 cylinder
- The MPG on the Jetta was obtained with a manual tranny, automatic loses another 10%+ energy

If the US Prius could use Diesel, it would get 20% above its rated 50 US MPG, thus 60 MPG on Diesel. If Imperial gallons, 72 MPG.
However, the US Prius = 50 MPG and the UK Prius = 60 MPG, petrol rating.
- Prius is cheaper than a Jetta TDI
- Prius is less confort / less sporty ride
- Prius has more cargo space
- Upkeep on a diesel car is more expensive than ANY car on the road

One must not forget that no matter the technology, burning diesel in a car pollutes much more, as in NOx, than regular gasoline.
Not for trucks and 18 wheelers - diesel pollutes less than gasoline would. 18 wheelers would have to fuel up more often, or carry larger tanks, with gasoline.

[DandyDon]

The rest of your lengthy and well written post was informative but I think this part is just worded so it could be misread...

Flex-fuel vehicles are E85 ready. E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline instead of the 10% blend in common usage today.

E85 is 85% alcohol, adjusted to 70% ethanol in the winter - balance gas.
Common gas mixes usually sold may have up to 10% alcohol, balance gas.
That's what you meant, right?

I do run a bottle of injector cleaner thru my gas tank on every oil change. Been thru that before. My have things have changed since I learned to drive on a double clutch '52 Ford.