Serious Problem at Big Bay Point

[Groundhog246]

This happens every weekend..

My buddy and i have been diving BBP 2-3 times a week for 3 years now.. and have had several issues including both of us being hit no more than 20 feet off the dock.. My incidental included my dive flag being slashed and the hand wheel on my first stage being cut into by a zodiac prop.. !

I can only ask, why would you dive there then? Putting one or 50 dive flags in the water does not have any law behind it in Canada. 20 feet from a DOCK, a boat would have the right of way, NOT a diver, especially if all that's showing is your typical small dive float or flag. That said, there is a speed limit for boats within 20 feet of a dock and many don't obey that. But even if a zodiac or PWC is within the speed limit, if a diver is hit, the diver will lose. And if there's any chop on the water, the boater probably won't even realize he hit anything, unless it damages a prop, etc.
Diving there makes as much sense to me as riding a 10 speed bike on the 400 or the 401. Boat dock or launch ramp = BOATS!!!!

[roastbeef]

I agree 100% the boats have the right of way at the docks. I'm still tyring to figure out why the diving industry stopped producing flags that say "DIVER BELOW" I know the red striped dive flag should be a standard on any boating course but as divers you just can't count on it and it doesn't seem to be working so perhaps by making the flags once again that say "DIVER BELOW" it may help some divers at close range with boaters and that's if the boater can read English which is another issue.


Roast beef

[popsiclediver]

Ive been to The Morrison a couple of times before.. is this different? Ive never seen a dock, and GHD seems to be really bent out of shape about diving around docks...fair enough...but as we march over the rocks with our gear, or down the beach by the fountain there is no 'dock' between the Morrison and our heading....... As Graeme said, it can get quite busy, but no one Ive seen is as foolish as to drop in by a dock.... jet skis, on the other hand, do view the flags a sport....

[Michael_Lambert]

Yes the Morrison is a different dive site than BBP.. Also keep in mind the same issues happen while diving the Morrison.

Why do we dive there, Its the only site locally where we can get the depth for much of the training and skills we like to do.

Fact is, Like said it is a dock and there are boats. All we can do is work together to ensure we do dive it as safe as possible.

Going in is typically not an issue as you can clearly see nothing is around when you head out... Its after your dive you are coming up to the unknown.

Ever since diving no flag and shooting a marker on the 15 foot stop we have not really had any issues.

9 out of 10 times boaters and the local fisherman on the dock work with the divers and avoid us and we avoid them.. The dock is never used by boats to actual tie off too... in the 10+ years i have been using that dock i can count on 1 hand how often i found a boat tied off.. There is no ramp there for launching... just a dock.

[Groundhog246]

Ive been to The Morrison a couple of times before.. is this different? Ive never seen a dock, and GHD seems to be really bent out of shape about diving around docks...

There is a dock, follow 30th Sideroad to the end and you can see it on the map.
Innisfil, Ontario, Canada - Google Maps

I get bent out of shape with not so smart people complaining about others behaviour, when they need to take a real hard look at their own. Especially when you've got professionals taking students out and TEACHING them the bad behaviours, such as diving from or beside a DOCK!!!

As for the Morrison. I've done more than one dive there. Never had a problem on entry or exit. I get just as annoyed as any diver with irresponsible PWC operators and other plain bad boaters. On the other hand, I've watched a group of divers arrive, gear up and head for the Morrison towing a flag, with fishermen in boats already on the wreck and others coming and going and then complain loudly about the boats not respecting thier flag! And I really have to wonder why they thought they thought the boats who were there first should leave. And with it proximity to a public boat launch JC Morrison - Google Maps boat traffic shouldn't be a surprise.

My other pet peeve, is what many divers consider an adequate float/flag. If you're upwind or downwind of a flag, all that's really visible is the float and pole. And if the float or flag is upsun (you're looking towards the sun and the flag at the same time, reflctions on the water make it almost impossible to see. You certainly won't be able to distinguish any color or pattern ie. red with a diagonal white stripe. The Safe Boating Guide mentions divers and flags on page 51 of the 2009 edition. Not much of a mention in an 84 page publication. It does "recommend" staying at least 100 meters away if possible and slowing down. It also mentioned the requirment to fly both flags from a boat if diving. It doesn't mention that from a boat, under the apllicable laws for boats, that dive flag Alpha must be "Rigid and 1 meter tall". The little 12" nylon flag from Canadian Tire doesn't cut it. However, tha law actually only applies to commercial diving tenders, not sport divers. As I've mentioned before, the red/white dive flag on my boat is 30"X60".
I agree there need to be co-operation and sharing of the water between divers and boats, as well as other users of our waterways such as swimmers and wildlife. I watched a PWC chasing geese on Monday. I wonder if he has any idea what kind of fine he could get if Natural Resources caught him, along with possible loss of his PWC? I'd have called if I'd known who to call. But, it needs to go both ways, and if we want respect for our flags, we need to make them visible. For example these Amazon.com: Inflatable Dive Float with Flag Scuba Maxs ( Size: 12" x 15" (DF03) ) are useless from a boaters perspective. The bigger yellow one Amazon.com: DELUXE INFLATABLE DIVE FLAG AND FLOAT BUOY with horizontally hung flag is not too bad, but still not very visible if your not to one side or other of ther crossbar. And if it can't be clearly made out from 100 metres across the water, expect boats to come closer to see what it is.

[Michael_Lambert]

I agree 100% the boats have the right of way at the docks. I'm still tyring to figure out why the diving industry stopped producing flags that say "DIVER BELOW" I know the red striped dive flag should be a standard on any boating course but as divers you just can't count on it and it doesn't seem to be working so perhaps by making the flags once again that say "DIVER BELOW" it may help some divers at close range with boaters and that's if the boater can read English which is another issue.


Roast beef

Does not seem matter, I dive the location regularly.. With a "Diver down" flag the big red round one saying "Diver Down" on it with the little flag pole, and yet i have had boats and jetskies buss the marker, i have had fishermen actually stop and try pulling it into there boats!

[Groundhog246]

First, let's not confuse most drivers of PWC's with boaters. There are a few responsible PWC operators, some even own big boats, but most are younger, male and of the same mentality that ride sport style motorcycles. You know, the ones that fly by on no passing zones, pass on the line on the 401 between two vehicles and most of the time are well over the speed limit. Many of them know the rules (laws), they just don't care and have no respect for anyone else. More laws, education, etc, won't help, at least not without enforcement.

There's not a lot of excuse for anyone, fisherman included, trying to pick up your marker. Now I do know a couple of fishermen up where we dock, that probably wouldn't connect the phrase "diver down" with a scuba diver, without pictures. They also have no intention of getting a bloody license to drive a boat, because they've been doing all their life just fine. The local club has had racing marks, which had Reef Boat Club, Race Mark 1, 2, etc on them in large black letters. One brought it back and turned it in at the marina, "they thought the club must have lost it, because it was 2 miles off shore". In past years, they've had them cut loose and lost them and the anchor they were on. Some of the fishermen get upset when the racing fleet come through where they're fishing (and under sail, they have the right of way). Locally relations between the two groups is good at the moment. But in some areas, there's a real animosity between power, especially fishermen and sail.

I find if everyone just tries to be polite and not blame the many good boaters and divers for the rude and ignorant few, it all goes much better. All it needs is an of ignorant boater and a couple of rude divers to start it, a few more on each side to fan the flames, and then it hits the fan.