Private certification

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Instructor

The shop is just a convenient point of introduction.

You walk into a dive shop, and you know it's a dive shop, it's logical to ask "do you have an instructor who can teach me"

You meet a guy at random on a street, it's not logical to ask him "Are you a dive instructor? Can you teach me?"

Well, unless he's wearing a sandwichboard saying "Dive lessons, Cheap"
 
Hi all

Can you get certified (Padi,who ever) In Ontario Canada privately or
do you have to go through a LDS

Absolutely, PADI instructor may certify any individual without going through a LDS.
 
There is nothing saying a PADI instructor cannot work independent of a dive shop. Some agencies require the instructor to be affiliated with a dive shop but PADI is okay with an instructor working independently.

Finding an independent instructor is something entirely different. Like Kiwi303 points out, it is harder to find an independent instructor. Additionally, the costs are going to be higher. I work out of a dive shop as a DM and will continue to work for them when I become an instructor. The shop's liability insurance covers me. PADI requires proof of insurance in order for an instructor to be current. Buying insurance for myself will be a little more expensive then getting covered by a shop's insurance. Also, the shop will handle the paperwork. They will make sure students have all their forms filled out, they'll log the information with PADI, etc. For some instructors they like to dive and teach but hate the paperwork.

Additionally, a shop will give students discounts on things like tanks, air fills, pool time, etc. Training tends to be a break even or money losing part of the business around here. When you factor in rental gear. If I have 8 students I don't need just 8 sets of gear, I need gear for extra small, small, medium, large and extra large students. As an independent instructor, there is no way I can stock as much gear as a dive shop. I also don't have equipment sales to supplement my income. Even if I tried to sell equipment, I wouldn't have the same volumes as a dive shop. Students would tend to purchase all their gear from a dive shop or online.

Finally, as a dive shop instructor I would get use of the gear in the shop, free air fills, discounts on personal gear, informal training from the Course Director, I don't have to pay for advertising, etc.

Bottom line, there are independent instructors but if you are a PADI instructor you tend to work out of a dive shop because it is hard to compete with the PADI dive shops and you get additional perks from working out of the dive shop. Essentially, working out a dive shop seems like a win-win for the shop and the instructor.

That said, if you are looking for a more personalized, higher quality training. You might be able to find an instructor who will give you a better experience for more money. A dive shop will typically charge you $199 for your OW class and pool then you pay for the open water portion separately (some people go to the Caribbean, some finish up locally). If you look around you will find instructors with 5000+ dives, certifications galore, etc. Essentially, a dive shop might be people who are divers and want to supplement their habit. An independent instructor might be someone who takes teaching much more seriously and will give you a much better training experience.

Often the best independent instructors will require you to get enough people for a class (you and 3 to 5 friends). They will charge $1000 per student. They will expect you to buy your own gear and get your own air fills. REALLY well respected instructors (20+ years experience) will expect you to fly them in, arrange a pool and pay for lodging and food.

The way most independent instructors sell it, PADI is quick, easy and inexpensive to start. With a few hundred dollars you can get OW certified. But if you are going to the level I'm currently at, OW, Adventure Dives (Peak Performance Buoyancy, Drift Diver, etc.), AOW, Rescue Diver, Dive Master you will easily spend $1000+ for all your training. So do you pay $1000+ over many years or do you take a 5 day, intensive training for $1000 and be done with it.

As someone who works full time and dives as a hobby, I was attracted to the idea of getting trained on the weekend and devoting half days here and there over 10 tens. So I went PADI. Knowing what I know now, I would have gone independent.... however, 10 years ago I didn't know enough to find a good independent instructor, the people I would train with now weren't as qualified 10 years ago, etc, etc.
 
Thanks guys
I was wonder about this more around the Wreck, Cavern, and Ice Specialties....From what i have heard
PADI is not that indepth!!!! Tell me if Im wrong.

P.S Three more days till OW wish me luck on my bad ankle
 
PADI minimum standards are not that indepth when it comes to specialties like Wreck, Cavern, etc. For example, the Wreck Speciality does not include penetration into the wreck. At the instructor's discretion they can teach penetration but the total distance to the surface (depth down plus distance into wreck) must not exceed 140 feet. If you get an instructor who is going to do the minimum, you will be trained to swim around the outside of a wreck. Not too impressive. On the other hand, you can find PADI shops which teach penetration.

If you are interested in serious penetration then you either go with a shop which uses IANTD or TDI. These are technical dive agencies and build on recreational diving. So you could do PADI to AOW then switch to TDI for wreck diving. Having certification from multiple agencies is actually quite common in Ontario. Lately I have seen less and less TDI or IANTD instructors and more GUE instructors around Ontario.

If you want to read a blog of a respected TDI instructor in Ontario check out Steve Lewis' Blog.
 
Thanks guys
I was wonder about this more around the Wreck, Cavern, and Ice Specialties....From what i have heard
PADI is not that indepth!!!! Tell me if Im wrong.

P.S Three more days till OW wish me luck on my bad ankle

First of all, good luck with your open water. Secondly, many thanks to ScubaDiver888 for plugging my blog... wingnut, you may find it helpful.

The information so far in this thread is pretty accurate. The sport certifying agencies (PADI, SDI, SSI, NAUI, et al) have slightly different guidelines that their members (instructors) have to follow and some require instructors to be directly affiliated with a dive shop or facility, and some do not. Historically, the core instructor base for technical certifying agencies (TDI, IANTD, NSS-CDS, NACD, GUE et al) is made up of independent instructors. I believe I'm pretty typical in this regard, and have been teaching technical programs independently since the mid 1990s. What complicates this a little is that I do work in association with stores and facilities in special cases... such as running an instructor-training program for a shop which has also advertized the corresponding diver-level course to its customers.

OK, back to you. Once you get a few dives under your belt, you will probably be in the market for some more training and certainly the folks who you complete your OW training with, will be promoting next steps to you. In my opinion, the benefits you may get from ALL and ANY specialty programs will be greatly enhanced by going into the program with some underwater experience over and above your checkout dives.

With regard specifically to overhead courses (wreck penetration and cavern). The programs from a tech agency (TDI for example) are structured specifically to teach advanced techniques / procedures to divers who already have considerable experience. My Advanced Wreck program as a for instance is open to divers who have at least 100 logged dives... Technical programs are typically two or more times as long as sport diving specialty programs. An intro to tech program (probably the first tech course you want to think about when you have a few dives and get the bug) is four to five days. It works on similar skills to a handful of specialties, but the standards for passing and therefore the intensity of training is high... some would suggest higher... compared to sport diving certs (in short, divers fail technical programs).

Anyhow, enough for now. I have to go do some work.
 
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Thanks again everyone..I am sure that you guys get sick of answering questions about technical diving from Newbie's !!!
I am becoming very Interested in the tech stuff.....I want to see every shipwreck...LOL
I have years to learn the skills and I am in NO RUSH to get deep, I have lots to learn.

Thanks for the link to Mr. Lewis Blog Its Great
Mr. Lewis (Dopple) Hope to see you in a couple years.

Cheers Wingnut
 
Thanks again everyone..I am sure that you guys get sick of answering questions about technical diving from Newbie's !!!
I am becoming very Interested in the tech stuff.....I want to see every shipwreck...LOL
I have years to learn the skills and I am in NO RUSH to get deep, I have lots to learn.

Thanks for the link to Mr. Lewis Blog Its Great
Mr. Lewis (Dopple) Hope to see you in a couple years.

Cheers Wingnut

No problem, and answering questions is how we ALL learn!

Thanks for visiting my blog... and please call me Steve or doppler... Mr. Lewis is some other guy! LOL
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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