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View Poll Results: I am aware of biannual CSA testing required for air fill stations?
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26. You may not vote on this poll
And always ask to see a certificate every 6 months
Seahunter, I just got through that long post of yours and wanted to alert readers to some incorrect factual information regarding Maxxam Analytics. First Maxamm was the result of a merger in 1996 of Novamann and Chemex Labs from Alberta. To keep refering to your experience from Novamann from a decade ago is as ridiculous as me having had a bad experience at the Wet Shop ten years ago and saying I won't go to Scuba2000 today. I personally used Chemex labs for six years (not for compressed air analysis) and can say they were the best in that field at that time. So how about we look at Maxxam as a new entity and go from there.
If you had a look at the link posted earlier in the thread (pdf file) you would have seen most of what TRI labs offers you is also offered by Maxxam and is only 20 km from your store. From their site:
- fast response:emergency service 24 hours, normal 5 business days
-immediate alert (i.e. phone call) of off-spec results
- sampling cylinder and instructions included with order
-assistance with interpretation of standards
-certificate of conformance issued
Not suggesting you change labs just that your get your 'facts' straight. Maxxam is Maxxam and not Novamann which existed seven years ago.
Very well said puffer. Another interesting point is that the Naui Modified CGA Grade E air standard in their code of ethics has a CO not to exceed 2 ppm. Gees, I wonder why they lowered it??
The list is slowly getting longer. Tests by the OUC are not recognized as certified. Certifications must be less than six months old and preferably less than three months old.
The following Ontario shops have a recent air certificate meeting or exceeding the CSA Z180.1 standard for compressed breathing air.
1. Dive Center Ottawa
2. Scuba2000 Toronto
3. Ron's Scuba Cornwall
4. Dolphinos Ottawa
5. G&S Watersports Tobermory
Still waiting to hear about any Brockville shops. If I have missed anyone please post the shop's name.
Last edited by pufferfish; May 21st, 2003 at 06:21 PM.
I've already stated why I prefer Trace Analytics Inc. in Austin to Novaman (oops! Sorry!) Maxxam and most of those reasons remain unfazed.
While I've not made any reference to it 'til now, I can't ignore the fact that 2 tests at Max would cost as much as the 4 I currently have each year. Maxamm has not been willing to offer a discount for volume tests. Added to the other good reasons, I still will not change.
Let me ask you why you're so anxious for me to change companies. Any accredited lab can do the air testing and all I'm obligated to do is ensure the results meet the CSA standards. What's the big deal with Maxamm?
Let's try an experiment! Call Maxamm and tell them I need 4 air tests each year and that I'd like to hear from their sales or customer service rep.
I'm willing to bet 10 free air fills right now that no one will call me!!
pufferfish once bubbled... Not suggesting you change labs just that your get your 'facts' straight. Maxxam is Maxxam and not Novamann which existed seven years ago.
Did I suggest you change labs? No just that you get your facts straight. You could also use Seatech in Nova Scotia or Cantest in British Columbia.
Free air fills no way. You know how I feel about free fills,....kind of like 'free' sex. Just doesn't come across as a quality product when either are offered free
"Free Sex?!!" Give me the number!!
Few people are as aware as I that sex is never free!
Free air fills on the other hand, are exactly that. Certified pure air fills for certified divers are free at S2K (2 fills per day max.). As to quality I agree. Generally something that's free is inferior but I assure you, the free air comes from the same bottles as the air for which I charge $5 a fill to non-divers (and the air I and my loved ones use).
I didn't mean to push you. It just seemed that you are determined to get me to consider using another lab for some reason. I'm quite happy with the lab I currently use and they meet my requirements - good service, good value and to the standards I require.
Check the related post under 'Price Club' where this issue has arisen again and see the new 'bet'.
Ok Cat you caught me on that one. I was just trying to use the comparison that if one saw a sign with 'free sex' the average person would likely not take the offer seriously for fear of 'contamination'. Likewise with 'free air' advertised on a dive shop's window the same suspicions are raised. Why is the owner giving it away? Yes I realize it is a loss leader but it is a perception thing in my mind. Now the issue of quarterly Maxxam certificates for the 'free' sex thing has been discussed but don't think Canada is ready to be Holland yet
Seahunter, you stated earlier that your "quarterly test costs us $1000 a year" which is the same price four tests ($250 each) would cost at Maxxam. Were you not a math teacher at one point in time? How does two tests at Maxxam then cost more than your four at Trace Analytics? Seems like somehow those facts just keep getting mixed up. And no I am not suggesting you switch labs just that you present the facts accurately.
Why don't you try an experiment this year and charge $5 a fill to all divers. I bet it wouldn't make a difference at all to your customer volume and you would have an extra 20K to put toward a quantitative realtime inline contaminant gas monitor. Then charge me $6 a fill and I will come to your store. As no one else in the GTA is giving fills away(for good reason) why do you bother? Your customers are not going to go elsewhere as all the other shops are charging $5. Just don't think the free air thing is much of a drawing card.
don't you have it backwards? It's *not* free there (well, legally allowed to be "not free").
Hmm, how about calling it an "in kind" donation (to use grant terminology here) instead of free? Or a "mutually beneficial non-business arrangement". I could argue that sex is not "given away" anymore than a handshake is but...
back to the topic of CO and compliance with air standards testing.
Why continue to debate compliance with seahunter, who IS getting his air tested and more frequently than required at that? There's a lot of stores that aren't.
The free vs loss-leader issue (doesn't each tank fill cost *something*, seahunter - someone must have to fill the tanks and aren't they being paid? I say it's a loss leader - never said it wasn't a good or clever idea) is semantics, bottom line for me is it's certified clean and, given the air quality in the rest of TO, that's a miracle of sorts
Also seems like pufferfish is now asking seahunter to alter a strictly financial decision related to his store - not one related to safety. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this please - it's been a rough week) So you think his customers wouldn't get a wee bit riled if he suddenly started charging for air? Wanna bet? People are funny - they'll drive a long way to save a few cents on gas. If he wants to give away fills, charge an arm or a leg for them or ask for a donation to his favourite charity then that's entirely up to him (and anyone else with a financial interest in the store), right?
Timeframe on the analysis bet is a little short for me, I'm afraid - nor do I own a tank so I could collect. (Be a bit far to ship it even if I did) Have tipped someone else off about it though, so we'll have to see if they make deadline.
Cat just forget about that free sex analogy which yes implies that paying is better which is NOT what I meant . How about we use the free drinking water analogy instead. In Walkerton people now have access to 'free' tap water and yet I believe a third of the town still pays dearly for the bottled stuff when I am sure Walkerton water is now the cleanest in the province. Likely some of that behaviour is 'one bitten twice shy' but much of it is likely the perception that water paid for is better than that 'given away' by the state. In that regard yes people will drive a long distance for cheap gas, but I would contend that divers will drive a long distance for clean certified air and gladly pay for it to boot. Gasoline is a commodity which has no human safety concerns whereas scuba air and drinking water quality very much does. Gasoline and air are apples and oranges.
But you are correct about Seahunter. As you can see that list of certified air sources in Ontario is very short and yet S2K is on the list. I do apologize if I was a bit short in my post last night. Seahunter is one of the few shops in this province who has made a concerted effort to maintain quarterly testing to the recognized standard. As well despite the infomercials at times his input and thoughts on the issue of air quality have been greatly appreciated and enhanced the debate. His notice to his instructors and students, even if a bit general, will raise the level of awareness on the air quality issue and put all those shops that are delinquent in testing on the defensive when customer after customer starts asking to see those certs. I can assure you that after Walkerton, SARS, and now mad cow disease, divers will be asking a lot more questions about the quality of air they breath. The quality of the water, air, and food we take in are now front and center. Seahunter and the other four shops listed above which meet a very basic compressed air quality standard (twice a year minimum) are unfortunately very much the exception in this province. You are right in that it is the other 95% of shops we truly need to be concerned about.
So SH can glady give his air away for free and continue to use his Texan lab just as long as he checks his facts before he posts
Last edited by pufferfish; May 23rd, 2003 at 06:51 PM.
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. How about we use the free drinking water analogy instead. In Walkerton people now have access to 'free' tap water and yet I believe a third of the town still pays dearly for the bottled stuff when I am sure Walkerton water is now the cleanest in the province. Likely some of that behaviour is 'one bitten twice shy' but much of it is likely the perception that water paid for is better than that 'given away' by the state. In that regard yes people will drive a long distance for cheap gas, but I would contend that divers will drive a long distance for clean certified air and gladly pay for it to boot. Gasoline is a commodity which has no human safety concerns whereas scuba air and drinking water quality very much does. Gasoline and air are apples and oranges.