? for those in the know on booster pumps.

[O2BBubbleFree]

Now I've done it.

I made an impulse buy. The kind I would tell any good friend to avoid...

As you may know I'm a rebreather wannabe, and have been reading up on them enough to know how advantageous (necessary?) a booster pump is going to be once I’m diving a CCR in all the exotic places that I can only dream about now. I also know how expensive a Haskel or Jetsam MicroBooster is.

A couple of days ago I found myself playing around on eBay and, low and behold, there’s a GroundFlight Hydrogen/Oxygen Intensifier. Here's the manufacturer's site. Looks pretty cool. So I looked at my Mad Money account to determine my max bid.

Then I doubled it. .



And then I doubled it again.

The seller claims that it is military surplus, in very good condition, and offers a 30-day refund. He’s got good feedback.

Anyway, I ended up winning the thing for $449.00 (just under $470 with shipping and insurance).

So what do you booster-knowledgeable types think? Did I find a hidden treasure, or make a stupid move? Like I said, I know about Haskels and MicroBoosters, and have read the booster-related stuff on the OxyHacker site several times (gotta get that book soon), but hadn’t ever heard of GroundFlight.

I’ll probably tear it down as soon as I get it to see what kind of shape it is in. Then, of course, rebuild it after I get the OxyHacker book and know everything there is to know about O2 cleaning. It will be a while before I can test it, since I don’t even have a compressor, tanks of O2, fill whips, or even air tanks in my possession at this point, but I might have to rent some air tanks just to play with it.

 

[padiscubapro]

Now I've done it.

I made an impulse buy. The kind I would tell any good friend to avoid...

As you may know I'm a rebreather wannabe, and have been reading up on them enough to know how advantageous (necessary?) a booster pump is going to be once I’m diving a CCR in all the exotic places that I can only dream about now. I also know how expensive a Haskel or Jetsam MicroBooster is.

A couple of days ago I found myself playing around on eBay and, low and behold, there’s a GroundFlight Hydrogen/Oxygen Intensifier. Here's the manufacturer's site. Looks pretty cool. So I looked at my Mad Money account to determine my max bid.

Then I doubled it. .



And then I doubled it again.

The seller claims that it is military surplus, in very good condition, and offers a 30-day refund. He’s got good feedback.

Anyway, I ended up winning the thing for $449.00 (just under $470 with shipping and insurance).

So what do you booster-knowledgeable types think? Did I find a hidden treasure, or make a stupid move? Like I said, I know about Haskels and MicroBoosters, and have read the booster-related stuff on the OxyHacker site several times (gotta get that book soon), but hadn’t ever heard of GroundFlight.

I’ll probably tear it down as soon as I get it to see what kind of shape it is in. Then, of course, rebuild it after I get the OxyHacker book and know everything there is to know about O2 cleaning. It will be a while before I can test it, since I don’t even have a compressor, tanks of O2, fill whips, or even air tanks in my possession at this point, but I might have to rent some air tanks just to play with it.

Looks interesting.. Since the previous history is not known a full rebuild/cleaning is probably in order..

Looking at the specs it can be driven using the source gas (could be wasteful) or by a sperate supply.. Depending on how its configured will determine your course of action..

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Looking at the specs it can be driven using the source gas (could be wasteful) or by a sperate supply.. Depending on how its configured will determine your course of action..

I understand. The online .pdf tells how to re-configure it. For the uses I have envisioned, a separate drive gas is in order.

For garage use, I plan to drive it with compressed air. For the drive compressor, I need to do a little more research. I read somewhere (probably the Oxyhacker site) that boosters should be driven by oilless compressors to prevent oil from migrating from the drive side to the compression side. However, on the GroundFlight site they mention driving it with 'shop' air. I need to know more about the design of this particular booster. Of course, it would be nice to have a SCUBA compressor, and I could simply drive the booster off of that.

For travel/boat use, I think the norm is to drive boosters with a scuba tank, say one that has been on a dive but still has 1000 psi left.

What I would like to do is come up with interchangeable couplers that allow either configuration. Like the re-configurable fill whips I’ve seen on other sites.

On the fringe of my thinking is yet another scenario. Stop reading now if you value your time:

It all started when I saw a set-up on eBay a year-or-so back that was advertised as a portable air compressor for SCUBA. It consisted of a small 'medical' air compressor, a Haskel, and a filter system, arranged on a hand cart. I'm sure it would be a slow fill, but might it be just the ticket for someone wanting to put a small, light-weight compressor on a sailboat?

Expanding on that idea, would it be possible to set up a portable system, and have the booster dual use? Serving as a compressor for air and also a booster for O2? I know that the filter system would have to be really good to keep the booster from being contaminated while pumping air, but is it practical? Even possible?

What if it could run on 12V? Is 12V power available on boats? I would think so, but I don’t even know that for sure. So far the best 12V, continuous duty, oilless compressor that I've found has a 150 psi max working pressure. With a 10:1 booster that's only a 1500 psi fill. But what if you throw a small tank into the works? Could you fill the small tank to 1500 psi, then use a cascade-like approach to filling your diluent tank (fill both the holding tank and the RB diluent tank to 1500 psi, then re-configure the booster to boost air from the holding tank into the diluent tank)? I know, not practical for 99% of divers, but, using this approach, could you put together a practical fill station that is small and light, for RB expeditions to the far corners of the earth? What if your expedition is to a cave system that you have to fly in to? Couple a gas weedeater engine to an automotive alternator, and make a 12V gen set. But at this point is there any advantage to my motor/alternator/compressor/booster/filter setup over a ‘traditional’ portable compressor and booster?

These are the things I lay awake at night and ponder... I just need lots of time and money...

Or sleeping pills.

 

[padiscubapro]

I understand. The online .pdf tells how to re-configure it. For the uses I have envisioned, a separate drive gas is in order.

For garage use, I plan to drive it with compressed air. For the drive compressor, I need to do a little more research. I read somewhere (probably the Oxyhacker site) that boosters should be driven by oilless compressors to prevent oil from migrating from the drive side to the compression side. However, on the GroundFlight site they mention driving it with 'shop' air. I need to know more about the design of this particular booster. Of course, it would be nice to have a SCUBA compressor, and I could simply drive the booster off of that.
.

SHop air is ok.. It doesnt have to be an oil free compressor, just filter it well.. if the seperate drive gas scenerio is truely isolated a slight bit of oil should be no issue.. make sure you get a good coalescor for the drive gas.. Dry gas is the most important thing.. any moisture will wash away any lubricants and make any oil a bigger problem..

The little "booster" you picked up seems interesting, getting everything set up correctly MIGHT be a bit out oof your league, but its only money...

to run it off multiple gas sources, what I would so is put a BC inflator nipple so that it could be run off a scuba cylinder, and the proper hose could be made to use "shop" air as well.. On the "fill" end I would connect it to a whip with a male din fitting, then buy several femal din connectors and adapters for different style tanks so that you could fil using various gas sources.. All the proper adapters and hoses will end up costing you more than you paid for the booster.. I should know.. I have a few sets of them..

If you decide to back out of this project PM me, I'd be interested in tearing this beast apart and seeing how everythinng can be set up..

One word of warning... some of these types of pumps once taken apart the seals have to be replaced, they can't be reused in alot of cases...

Something like this never bothered me because I am good at making disassembly/reassembly instructions.. I always documenet the specific torques and have the proper stuff to determine the seals..

On many booster designs (but not all) torqueing the bolts to the proper values is very important,mismatched torqueing can lead to barrel distorion and then failure..

If you really want to do fills on a small boat, pick up a small RIX sa3 or sa6 thats gas powered... Trying to do it with a booster really isn't going to work well, youll go through more money in filtration in the long run..

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

SHop air is ok...

getting everything set up correctly...

to run it off multiple gas sources...

some of these types of pumps once taken apart the seals have to be replaced...

I always documenet the specific torques...

On many booster designs (but not all) torqueing the bolts...

Thanks for all the tips!

 

[oxyhacker]

Notice that despite the stuff about boosting to 10,000 psi the actual ratio is only 10:1. This means you are not going to be able to get useful output running it off a shop compressor or the intermediate pressure from a scuba reg neither will give you much more than 175 psi or so, which at 10:1 will yield only a 1750 fill pressure. That isn't much use. Output is tiny too. It should be fine for topping up RB bottles using leftover scuba air for drive gas, but you are not going to be filling doubles with it on a regular basis.

BTW, the stuff about using an oil free compressor in the book/website really applies only to boosters that lack separation between the drive and boost sides. Real boosters have redundant separation, and can be driven with just about any air. Bootstrap amplifiers and such, which are intended to boost same gas it is being driven with usually don't, and, since that's what yours is sold for, it probably doesn't.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Thanks for the clarification, Vance.

Gotta get your books...

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

My friend bought his Booster on Ebay a few month's ago. He paid $800 for it, and it work's awesome for filling the re-breather's tank's . We paid $28 for over a 300 cf tank filled with pure o2 , and to buy the tank was only $128 , as you can also rent them from where we get it .

We tested the booster to 5000 psi, as my paint-ball tank is carbon fiber, and DOT approved to 5000 PSI, and the booster had no problem filling it.

Another nice thing is, the LDS want over $10 a fill for 100% o2 for 13cf , and we paid $28 buck's for over 300 cf of o2 !! We just filled our Alum 30's and Alum 40's with 100% o2 for this weekend's upcoming trip to the Key's, and the booster had NP filling both tank's pumping pure o2.

We are taking a Heliox class also coming up soon, and will be doing our own fills for the RB's also , and we plan on using Heliox on the Rb's from there on out. Pump shouldn't have a problem with that either.

I have to say, having your own booster is awesome, I'm looking into one right now also,
As I plan on getting back into a CCR unit within the next few month's, and no more of these heavy tank's to carry around, I can't wait!

P.S. < If you want my friend's tele #, I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking to you, and explaining his set-up., etc, but you'll be really happy once your up and running!

 

[jagfish]

Hey FLTek, how are you doing!

Are there any special precausitons needed to boost O2 with a run-of-the-mill booster? O2 cleaning, etc?

Jim

 

[oxyhacker]

There are many boosters and boosterish devices which cannot be cleaned, such as the Haskel AA-series amplifiers, and the Sprague S-86 series, so if you are going to be using a booster not already set up for O2 for O2 it's a good idea to check before buying to find out if it can be made suitable. A few years ago someone "O2-cleaned" a batch of surplus Haskel amplifiers, and sold them as boosters - several combusted doing a fair amount of damage and injuring at least one person.

The best way to tell if a booster can be cleaned is to check with the manufacturer and find if they make an O2 compatible version of the booster. If they do, then O2 cleaning can usually be done by comparing the parts lists to find out which components (usually just a couple seals and O-rings) are different, and replacing them with the ones from the O2 version, and giving the booster a good "kitchen science" cleaning and relube with O2-safe lubricants.

As far as the boosting itself, all the normal O2 handling precautions must be taken, along with care not to boost the O2 too high in one step, or too fast.

Are there any special precausitons needed to boost O2 with a run-of-the-mill booster? O2 cleaning, etc?

Jim