rebreathers

[xtracheese4me]

As a total newbie on diving compared to most of you...i just want to state that.. I have read threads and articles about rebreathers because they interested me... BUT are people that use these things nuts??.. now excuse me for being a small minded country guy from lil ol wisconsin.. what am i missing? i see stats that show how many people didnt fair well with them.. i see a post here from a DR. who didnt do well... i dunno... ive come to my own conclusion that while diving is somthing to be loved. I cant picture myself trying it.. or ever feeling comfortable with the though of a rebreather...it the benifit of not having bubbles really worth and downsides? Please help me see what everyone everyone that uses them sees.... thanks alot...

dont take anything to heart about being called nuts..

peace

 

[padiscubapro]

xtracheese4me once bubbled...
As a total newbie on diving compared to most of you...i just want to state that.. I have read threads and articles about rebreathers because they interested me... BUT are people that use these things nuts??.. now excuse me for being a small minded country guy from lil ol wisconsin.. what am i missing? i see stats that show how many people didnt fair well with them.. i see a post here from a DR. who didnt do well... i dunno... ive come to my own conclusion that while diving is somthing to be loved. I cant picture myself trying it.. or ever feeling comfortable with the though of a rebreather...it the benifit of not having bubbles really worth and downsides? Please help me see what everyone everyone that uses them sees.... thanks alot...

dont take anything to heart about being called nuts..

peace

Yes there have been several deaths.. Yes they are more complicated than OC scuba, but there have been many more deaths on OC scuba.. With that mentality why are you diving??

ALL dives are a risk.. If you don't want any risk go play golf. Its a matter of reducing the risks to acceptable levels.. Most of the deaths that have occurred on RBs have been by either untrained, exceeding ones training, and medical reasons.. Too many people push themselves along too quickly. Some of the early training left alot to be desired but programs have improved vastly in the last few years.. Don't take my word about it, find an qualified inscructor that teaches an intro class to ccrs (no certification) they give an overview of RB technology, the classes are usually inexpensive, and allow you to make the decision on your own.

Not having any bubbles is only important to the photographers.. I choose a CCR because I am ALWAYS breathing the optimum gas for the depth I am diving, The gas is WARM and MOIST, and I have at least 3 hours of gas REGARDLESS of depth. On the same dives as an OC diver my decompression times are considerably less. The advantages of an SCR are much less, the gas is still warm and moist and its about 5x more efficient than OC.


If the S**t hits the fan I'd rather be on A CCR rebreather than any other form of diving.. an EXPERIENCED CCR diver has many more options than an OC or SCR diver... Time pressure is pretty much removed freom the equation..

 

[madmole]

I'll second Padiscubapro, after nearly 3000 dives on open circuit I swapped and will not willingly go back

1) Cheaper to run than Twins for gas
2) Warmer
3) Quieter
4) Less weight
5) Safer (Triple redundancy on mine, and I can always go OC as a last resort)
6) And it annoys GI3

I was told I was gonna die when
a) I took up diving in the 70's
b) Swapped to a Single Hose
c) Wore an early ABLJ
d) Bought a Drysuit
e) Used Oxygen for stops
f) Used Helium in the mix
g) Used a rebreather
h) I went Cave Diving

Guess what? I'm still here

Anyway, whats new about rebreathers, They have been around far far longer than OC Scuba and have a good safety record

You have to also look at the type of diving RB owners are doing, They are doing 150m dives with 3 hours duration and are generally more risky dives to start with, so its not suprising that at first glance they have more incidents. If OC guys tried to do that sort of dive the stats would look horrible

It would be like comparing Formula 1 deaths per drivers to family saloon owners

Before jumping to conclusions on rebreathers I suggest you do some research into them. Most of the stuff spouted in forums is from the ignorant to the uninformed to downright untrue

 

[runvus4]

From what I recall, there are very few accidents or deaths in diving in general due to outright equipment failure. The vast majority of accidents/deaths are a function of diver skill failures, either as mentioned above by exceeding training levels, divers panicking and not following their training, or diving while sick/impared/distracted. Bouyency control/uncontrolled ascent were reported to be the source of more than half of diving injuries alone.

Rebreathers certainly were very risky/dangerous in the past, but with the removal of the "caustic cocktail" and other design improvements have made the equipment itself fairly safe, provided the person using it is properly trained and follows that training.

I feel that within my diving lifetime, rebreathers will continue to improve in their reliability, size, weight, cost of operation and complexity and shift from an esoteric diving form of diving to one of the most common forms of diving on all levels, but closed circuit pretty much dominating any form of diving with a more expensive mix of gasses, making Helium (or other expensive nitrogen replacement gases) mixes far more widely used in the process.

 

[Fabart]

xtracheese4me once bubbled...
As a total newbie on diving compared to most of you...i just want to state that.. I have read threads and articles about rebreathers because they interested me... BUT are people that use these things nuts??.. now excuse me for being a small minded country guy from lil ol wisconsin.. what am i missing? i see stats that show how many people didnt fair well with them.. i see a post here from a DR. who didnt do well... i dunno... ive come to my own conclusion that while diving is somthing to be loved. I cant picture myself trying it.. or ever feeling comfortable with the though of a rebreather...it the benifit of not having bubbles really worth and downsides? Please help me see what everyone everyone that uses them sees.... thanks alot...

dont take anything to heart about being called nuts..

peace

There's a lot of rebreather divers, but we should be more...rebreather diving came from the past: the first Electronic CCR was made in 1969 and semiclosed, passive addition was developed after WWII by the french GERS and J.Y.Cousteau, yes by the father of open circuit(!) but it was only a military gear and so, nowadays, we are going to dive very safe apparatus. Believe me, nobubble diving is another matter and I, after 31 years of O.C. diving, have expeienced the real way to enjoy diving and feel part of underwater environment!
Fabio Bartolucci
http://www.rebreathers.it
(English version will be on line within few weeks)

 

[cnidae]

"If you don't want any risk go play golf" actually golf is more dangerouse than scuba, really it's true, don't laugh.

 

[madmole]

The UK insurance agencies compile a list eash year of the most dangerous sports (Fatalities balanced by number of participants), This years results were

1) Golf
2) Soccer
3) MotorSport
4) Fishing
5) Hockey


Scuba was 143rd and Cave diving in the 300'ds.

 

[jepuskar]

I spent most of yesterday reading up on rebreathers...looked at Dreager and then found the Inspiration. Was reading the specs on it from there website...I felt pretty confident in its design and precautionary systems/computer monitors....

I then went to your website and looked at the 16/17 deaths and read some of their accident briefs....it kind of put a damper on my rebreather readings.

I am not quite sure on what conclusion to draw from those deaths....I will not say rebreathers are a death wish, but I will say they seem less forgiveable in the event of a problem.

I don't want to get into rebreathers just yet, but I am thinking about it for the longterm.

Any recommendations on a good starter system or anything else?

 

[padiscubapro]

jepuskar once bubbled...
I spent most of yesterday reading up on rebreathers...looked at Dreager and then found the Inspiration. Was reading the specs on it from there website...I felt pretty confident in its design and precautionary systems/computer monitors....

I then went to your website and looked at the 16/17 deaths and read some of their accident briefs....it kind of put a damper on my rebreather readings.

I am not quite sure on what conclusion to draw from those deaths....I will not say rebreathers are a death wish, but I will say they seem less forgiveable in the event of a problem.

I don't want to get into rebreathers just yet, but I am thinking about it for the longterm.

Any recommendations on a good starter system or anything else?

Diving inherently has risks.. Many of the deaths are divers pushing the limits and exceding theor training. There are relative few OC cicuit death for recreational divers but the numbers go up for OC technical divers.. In my feeling many of these deaths would have been avoided by a trained CCR diver..
For a new rebreather diver its easier to kill yourself, for an experienced CCR diver you have many more options available to get yourself out of trouble.. Including (if properly equipped) bailing to open circuit.

time/gas supply is totally taken out of the equation.

You get lost in a cave or inside a wreck or entangled in something, you can take your time to make things right.. You are not on a countdown to being out of gas...

With the inspiration you have by manufacturers specs a 3 hour scrubber, in an emergency you could push it significantly past that.. Whwn you start getting some breakthrough (not total scrubber failure) you can run it as an SCR further pushing the limits (in an emergency), then finally bailing to open circuit.

 

[madmole]

Also on my site are the Inspiration Users Survey results. If you read then you'll also see that the average Turtle owner is doing 5 times more dives a year than an average OC bod. Those dives are to an average of 50m as opposed to the avergae of 15m for OC

So allowing for the Inspiration being out for 5 (nearly 6) years we have

say 4000 divers (allowing for low numbers at start) at 5 years X 50 dives each, thats 1 million Inspiration dives

Now divide that by the 16 fatalities and you get 62,500 dives per fatality which compares quite well with the 100,000 dives per fatality often quoted by BSAC. Remember these are deeper and longer dives as well which would suggest that the Turtle is actually safer than OC, which is what a lot of users (including me) believe

The problem is that certain folks have a vested interested in running rebreathers down and make sure you hear about ALL Inspiration fatalities. Bet you didn't hear about the 2 UK fatalities this last weekend on OC, No? what a suprise. Looking at the Diving fatalities for last year in the UK, the only conclusion you could draw by the same reasoning is that Twinsets should be banned