A stupid questions about rebreather training

[jimmy71]

Your post makes a lot of sense.
My problem is that the nuancis you speak of are also seem to be different for each diver/ccr combo. From what I have seen. People usually think that there ccr is the best ccr.

How do I know which combo I like untill I dive one? I see myself investing a couple k traveling around to try various units

[Mr.X]

That's the hard part - finding something. As a note - I do use the RB for professional work...I have owned/shared at least five CCR's. KISS Classic/Drager/Cis Lunar/Meg/AP.

All have had their uses depending on the job. For deep stuff/penetration I like the Meg and the CIS (no longer in production). For me the redundancy and ability to dump out water made these two choices a must in places where a flood of the canister / CO2 issues would be catastrophic. I also like the older Halcyon semi (not the original PVR-BASC). Big, but able to shed water and works well in cave situations where there isn't a lot of quick depth change.

X

[Martini]

If you gave us some idea of where you are located we might be able to help guide you in where to get some test dives.

While I think the Meg is a great rebreather not quite sure when a flood would be catastophic and the ability to recover a must . I can see it be a major inconvience unless of course you are diving alpinist. If you are carrying enough bail out you bail turn the dive and exit the cave or deep wreck.

With all that being said I think you are on the right path of trying to dive as many units as possible.

[jimmy71]

Well my short story is as such. I have been very lucky that I have recently been living next to some deep fresh water that I can dive year round in western NC. My local tech shop is a great one but does nothing with rebreathers. They are a great shop that even but together a set of doubles for me to use on any dives from the shop. I gave done all my tech training with them. After I have been debateing about getting my trimix cert.
As I see it I can save a little money as the trimix cert does not cross over to ccr and would cost me 1500 when I see a ccr in my near future. My desire for a ccr is many fold as I really enjoy the technology and theory and also see the writing on the wall with helium costs.

I will soon be moving for a new job and will now have the money and time to invest in a ccr in the next 1-1.5 years and am trying to formulate a 2 year plan for my dive training.

The latest job search looks like it may take me to Virginia beach area but I do not know where I will be in the end.

Thanks a lot of the responses so far. You guys have been very helpful

Jimmy

[Mr.X]

If you gave us some idea of where you are located we might be able to help guide you in where to get some test dives.

While I think the Meg is a great rebreather not quite sure when a flood would be catastophic and the ability to recover a must . I can see it be a major inconvience unless of course you are diving alpinist. If you are carrying enough bail out you bail turn the dive and exit the cave or deep wreck.

With all that being said I think you are on the right path of trying to dive as many units as possible.

I agree. As solid rule - always carry enough backup to get out. The hydrophobic scrubber canister for the CIS Lunar / Meg is overkill for most applications. That said - I was using these tools in a professional context - time & money. Additionally, I like ability to dump water out of the loop ahead of the scrubber. The Meg, Cis, Prism etc. and other units with OTS counterlungs have dumps built into the loop which allows the user to get rid of water. The KISS Classic/LAR and some other popular units cannot.

X

[Cap335]

If I wanted to try a lot of units in a short time I would look at south florida, there are instructors for most units in the Pompano to Key Largo area I would think with a little preplanning you could work out dives on the kiss, revo, posiden, evolution, meg and optima within a week and get some decent dives at the same time.

Randy

[HIGHwing]

A stupid question. I once met a rebreather diver who did not have his deco or advanced nitrox cert. He told me that shops would only fill his 13cu ft rebreather tank with O2 as he was not certed for anything else. For what ever reason he was in my open circuit advance nitrox/deco procedures class.

How does this normally work? The guy was not the brightest bulb so i declined to ask him any more.

Looking at some online descriptions I gather he had his MOD1. I am unsure why with the supposed hours he had on his unit, that he did not take a MOD 2 course instead of taking the OC adv nitrox/deco.

Take a quick step back. Have you ever noticed how us CCR Divers tell you to carefully select a CCR based on your requirements, unit specifc uniquenesses (quirks!), and yet theoretically there is only one golden training road to get to a CCR? I don't think so...

With the right instructor, student motorskills & intelligence, there's really no fundamental reason one even needs the mythical Adv. Nitrox/Deco "experience" on OC. Let's be honest, there's not exactly a seriously comprehensive CCR textbook, and much of every class is highly customized by the instructor to meet the student's needs for a CCR Class. Almost everyone attempting a CCR has a different diving resume from Zero to Hero. Hell, Richie Kohler wasn't ready to switch to a CCR until he saw enough people return alive to satisfy his skepticism - now he teaches on the big yellow box!

There is not any one instructor for all students, just as there is not any one CCR for any buyer, there is not one hard and fast progression path. Personally, I had no need for doubles and expensive fills - no thanks. I skipped Advanced Nitrox and Deco OC and went straight to the CCR for dives requiring those skills. NOW - That required a larger chunk of change & time than the $1,500 generally quoted for Mod 1.

If I were to desire to complete decompression dives on OC, realistically I should be standing in-line for the OC version of Advanced Nitrox and Deco. But...Frankly, for what it costs to run the rebreather versus doubles, you won't see me in line with a broken back with a set of Double 104s anytime soon. Ya Dig?

From a practical perspective, it's not unusual for CCR divers to run an Air Dilluient, however I choose to run 21/25 Trimix, which forces deco "early" as compared to Air, but deco seems to vanish from the handsets as I make my way to the surface. It generally costs me about $7.50 for a fill of 21/35 and I can get about four hours of diving out of it (if not more). Factoring Oxygen, I'm running a gas cost of under $4.00 an hour. I can't top an Aluminum 80 with Air for that price (unless I'm running the fill station). If you want a fair comparison, add in $7.50/hr for scrubber, and $0.75/hr for batteries.

Moral of the Story - Rebreather training is easily and commonly tailored to the CCR student. If you want to use more interesting Dil than Air, or be able to run a Deco Schedule, just ask your instructor. I'm quite sure with an additional day or two of training you'll be able to give you the knowledge you're "skipping" on Open Circuit.

Basically if you can calculate the MOD of a gas to make sure you don't exceed peak PO2 numbers for bailout or dil, you're going to be just fine for the basic class.

As for the hapless CCR diver. Take a look at a 60-foot dive on the Constant 1.2 PO2 Table. I don't have one handy, but it must take at least two hours to get into deco. Most boat drivers will be pretty pissed if you show up an hour after the recall time.

[AustinWeaver]

How long does the rebreather training take to complete?

[1.3]

How long does the rebreather training take to complete?

5 days for ANDI Level 2 CCR but can be done over a few weekends. Assumes you already have Advanced Nitrox 100% but this could technically be taught at the same time.

[packeteer]

fwiw, I went to CCR after 60 dives on single tank (and PADI Rescue cert).

Moving to CCR early was a very steep learning curve, but thanks to some mates who are very experienced techies, I am now a MOD2 CCR diver (Normoxic Trimix to 60m)