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These are all excellent points.
Good post, Stephen.
No argument here.
Originally Posted by fins wake
Perhaps IANTD, TDI, IART, ANDI and RAB could agree on the above with the big RB manufacturers? It's in everybody's interest to avoid erroneous speculation if the truth can be had.
Those agencies can't agree among themselves. For years TDI could't even agree among itself: they trained on Inspiration just about anywhere but here in the US, an American agency ... . Same for the manufacturers, they can't agree on a standard of testing AND public access to the data.
So I think that good, accurate, and accessable reports will remain wishfull thinking.
Also remember, you would need the responding and investigating agencies to support such an endeavour, which is rather unlikely considering the number of countries, municipalities and jurisdictions.
Finally you would have the families of victims' help, at least their okay to access data. Aside from their obvious grief and resulting desire not to have to deal with another entity they might well have solid reasons not to help out.
Especially in regards to diving past certification/experience, modifications etc., anything an insurance carrier may use to refuse payment.
I would have thought the insurance angle would have been a good reason to help. The faster it gets sorted and found not to be suicide the sooner they can get the money (if insured)
Most non US manufacturers already have testing standards thrown upon them (CE). it may not be the best but at least it is there
In the UK the BSAC have collated all incidents for many years (since the 50's), They have excellent relations with the Navy, Coastguard, RNLI, Police. They produce a yearly report detailing all incidencts reported. This does also include RB incidents for the UK and BSAC members abroad. They also have an incidents panel that analysis the data for trends. Take a look at
The faster it gets sorted and found not to be suicide the sooner they can get the money
I was thinking more in terms of exreme recklessness, that sort of thing.
Originally Posted by madmole
Most non US manufacturers already have testing standards thrown upon them (CE). it may not be the best but at least it is there
I believe the US manufactures tried and failed in the days before APD gained popularity. Couldn't agree on a thing.
So, tell me, which RB breathes better in horizontal and which one in supine position? Dolphin or Azimuth?
Originally Posted by madmole
In the UK the BSAC have collated all incidents for many years
Madmole, I really don't remember the way law enforcement and accident investigations are are done in the UK.
Here in the US you have 50 states, with state level law enforcement, county level LE, municipal LE, as well as federal LE, of course. Add to that vastly different laws and regulations, plus shared jurisdictions, and it will be hard to get that sort of cooperation and collation you envision.
And this is just one country, albeit a large one. How many investigating agencies in Europe? You can't even get a straight answer about Max Hahn's demise, as db8us justly pointed out. And he was quite a bit in the public eye, an educator when it came to diving and RBs etc., etc, etc..
Now throw in the rest of the world ... . :frown2:
I haven't posted on this board for a long time, but i have come here to announce the Death of a diver friend of mine here in switzerland.
His name was Luca aka "Il Bombarolo", he dived with a Buddy Inspiration rebreather and maybe some of you had heard of him, or read some information about rebreathers over his website www.yeapa.com
I just wanted to share the sad news with you as it has been posted over various boards.He died during a solo dive with a final profile of 60mn @17m Max Depth, and was found inanimated floating at the surface thursday 5th of March 2004.
Goodbye luca and farewell i shall miss you as posted over the french boards.
olivier
really sorry to hear that, I can feel your sadness. So sorry
I haven't posted on this board for a long time, but i have come here to announce the Death of a diver friend of mine here in switzerland.
His name was Luca aka "Il Bombarolo", he dived with a Buddy Inspiration rebreather and maybe some of you had heard of him, or read some information about rebreathers over his website www.yeapa.com
I just wanted to share the sad news with you as it has been posted over various boards.He died during a solo dive with a final profile of 60mn @17m Max Depth, and was found inanimated floating at the surface thursday 5th of March 2004.
Goodbye luca and farewell i shall miss you as posted over the french boards.
olivier
It should be noted, if all the reports I have heard are correct this death was totally avoidable.. Also its going to be hard to call it an Inspiration death.. yes the unit was mostly an Inspiration, but reports state the unit was being dove KISS style without any electronics. The unit was retrofitted with a constant oxygen addition bleed instead of electronic control and had no electronic monitoring whatsoever..
It should be noted, if all the reports I have heard are correct this death was totally avoidable.. Also its going to be hard to call it an Inspiration death.. yes the unit was mostly an Inspiration, but reports state the unit was being dove KISS style without any electronics. The unit was retrofitted with a constant oxygen addition bleed instead of electronic control and had no electronic monitoring whatsoever..
RULE #1 for Rebreather Dives
ALWAYS KNOW YOUR PO2!!
PSP, et al,
I had heard similar reports. It is truly an unfortunate event all of the way around. I did not know Luca personally, but I corresponded with him and found him to be very intelligent and personable.
I am completely astounded that an astute person like Luca would attempt such an experiment with no observer, and no monitoring but, it seems to be so!
Its amazing to me that anyone would dive a rebreather without PPO2 displays, if that's what happened.
But I certainly wouldn't call that KISS style. The KISS approach uses three completely independant oxygen monitors. It also uses frequent monitoring of the PPO2, since the stock unit has no set point controller.
It should be noted, if all the reports I have heard are correct this death was totally avoidable.. Also its going to be hard to call it an Inspiration death.. yes the unit was mostly an Inspiration, but reports state the unit was being dove KISS style without any electronics. The unit was retrofitted with a constant oxygen addition bleed instead of electronic control and had no electronic monitoring whatsoever..
RULE #1 for Rebreather Dives
ALWAYS KNOW YOUR PO2!!
can you state your sources of information on the case please ? for what i know the unit was free of any modifications, i'm quite surprised by that feedback... where does that come from ? if you have it please provide it ... (no attack intended)
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Originally Posted by fins wake
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sorry for your loss
