Replace second stage Viper Tec with...?

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dmentia

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Location
Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
Many questions do I have, for any equipment guru's that might be out there...

I bought a Dacor Viper Tec 1st stage/Viper Tec 2nd stage, and Viper (non-tec) Octo. I really like the first stage, and I like the Octo just fine, but I have decided the Viper Tec regulator is not for me. The low profile was not as comfortable as I would like.
My questions are:
Can I replace just the second stage and keep the Dacor 1st stage (I think I've seen that this is possible)?
What things do I need to be aware of if I can even do it? Are there any suggestions for what regulator to replace it with in terms of compatability, etc.?
Are there lots of differences in 1st stages? Maybe I shouldn't even want to keep this one?

Thanks,
dmentia

In case it matters, here are some specs on the 1st stage:
First Stage DFC (patented)
Dynamic Flow Control system controls airflow
for consistent breathability at all depths by
maintaining the intermediate first stage working pressure
First stage has 6 ports; 4 low-pressure and 2
high-pressure
Comfort grip knob on first stage yoke
Balanced diaphragm designed for consistent performance at depth
Port system optimally pre-oriented
Body is made of high-strength nickel and chrome-plated brass with a matte satin-finish surface.
 

beware of regulators named after venomous snakes ;-)

anywho: the concern with mix-and-match is the IP of the
first. will it relate well to the 2nd's expectations?
also, does the second use some funky hose diameter that
you'll need an adapter to properly connect to the 1st?

all these questions can be answered by a technician and i
am not a technician. choose a few and then ask. by and large
you should be 'good-to-go' if you stick with same mfgr.

if you opt to replace the entire reg, i'd take a look at
(not necessarily in order): Apeks, SCUBAPro, Oceanic (some
models), Atomic, Zeagle.
 
Check with the shop where you bought the regulator. They should be able to give you some options.
RonC.
 
Hay dmentia:
I'm thinking apout buying the Viper tec rig.
Would you be more explicit about your dislikes?
This purchase is a lot of money for me and I've not seen any other comments about it out there.
Thanks
50sdiver
 
Hello 50's,

I have several things that I had problems with, and they all added up to being disappointed in the reg.

1st, I felt the side exhaust did not clear the bubbles as well as it should have. It seemed to me that the exhaust valve was not "extended" to the side enough. Since I was also having problems with a mask that didn't fit well, the bubbles came up the side and "pushed" their way into the mask, causing some leaking. However, when I tilted my head just a bit the bubbles did clear without interference.

2nd, Even though the reg has a low profile, it did not sit well in my mouth. The hose I have is too short, but even when I used my Viper octo with a long hose, the reg seemed to "pull" at the corner of my mouth. I think this is also from the shape of the side exhaust.

3rd, The Viper tec is designed to push/send air into the mouth for ease of breathing. I had read that sometimes if you try to breath too hard, it "forces" air to the back of the throat. In the Viper Tec I have, this is true. My very first dive, I was having several little things go wrong at the surface, due to the mask leak and surface chop. I got a bit anxious, and tried to take a deeper breath when the air got shot to the back of my thoat. It was not comfortable. If I had not read about this tendency, I might have gotten with panicky. That said, this problem is supposed to have been fixed in the newest versions. If you purchase an older Tec, there is a spring that they can add to the airway to slow the force of the air down. So this concern may not even be valid anymore.

The last thing I can tell you, which I did NOT have happen to me, is there were some comments from people (at Rodale's http://www.scubadiving.com on their equipment board) that the Viper Tec has a tendency to free flow. I don't know if that is true, since I never had any problem with that.

I think that if you get a chance to try the Viper Tec in the water, you may find that all of these are not an issue. The reg itself worked great down to 100 ft, and I never noticed any kind of performance issues once I calmed down and breathed normally. But the pulling at the mouth, and the bubbles under the corner of the mask when I looked straight down or forward make me want to try a diff reg. I will make sure I try it in the water this time!

Sorry for such a long answer. Hope it helps!
Dmentia

By the way, to make this even longer, I really like the shape and performance of the first stage and Viper regular Octo (except for the pulling on the mouth). I think having a safe second that can be grabbed and used in any position is a good thing. And I like the shape of the first stage, as it prevents bumping your head as you look up.
 
Dmentia,
I would recommend against changing the second stage without changing the 1st stage as well. Regulators are designed specifically to work under exacting tolerances with the other piece of the puzzle in mind. Swapping a stage isn't always a good idea because the new piece might not be tuned to the level the other is.

Ask an experienced equipment technitian what you plan on doing and they may be able to give you some specific advice.


 
Dmentia:
Many thanks for the information, I was interested for the same reasions you were. instead of trying it in just a pool dive , I think I'll see if they will let me try it on a deep quarry dive.
50sdiver
 
I'm no regulator technician, so ask around. But I don't see why one second stage wouldn't work with another 1st stage as long as the intermediate pressures are within the operating ranges of the reg, and you don't have to change internal hose diameters.

The 1st stage is designed to deliver the 2nd stage with the airflow (litre/min) within a pressure range that the 2nd is designed to work with. If the two are within their own limits, the 2nd stage shouldn't care which regulator is delivering the air.

That said, the Dacor Viper Tec has a narrow range and rather higher top end at 142 - 148psi. But I don't see why the dealer wouldn't let you try the Fury Adj. That should work just fine, as it was designed with the same 1st stage in mind, with a more standard 2nd stage design.

There's a link at Rodales with various pressures for various rigs, but I can't testify to their validity.

The Viper Tec intermediate pressures:
Air Supply
200 bar/2900 psi - 9.8bar/142 psi to 10.2 air/148psi
Air Supply
30 bar/435 psi - 9.8bar/142 psi to 10.2 bar/148 psi

Hose Type high flow 3/8"
Flow Rate 4200 l/min

 

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