My first regulator - normal, defect, or in need of minor adjustment?

[dlwalke]

My recently purchased Scubaprog Mk16 w/S550 2nd stage and R380 backup has arrived. I set it up and was a bit alarmed by several things, but perhaps this is not unusual (I am a very new diver). First, after several seconds air starts coming through both of the second stages. If I purge them or breath in, the leak (free flow I guess is the term) will stop, but after several seconds later will start again. I stuck them both in a big pot of water and they are definately blowing lots of bubbles. The position of the adjustment knob makes no difference BTW. Second, when I breathe through the R380, it sounds like a cross between a foghorn and a kazoo - more like a kazoo. I suppose this has something to do with the diaphragm. If I breath through the regulator underwater (yes, I stuck my head into the big pot of water and I'm sure it looked quite silly, but anyway...) it does not make this sound. Third, after these tests, I found that the 1st stage had become pretty cold. As an aside, I was surprised to see that my new Cobra computer was showing the AL80 tank (that I had rented earlier) at 3500 PSI. All of the above listed symptoms persisted after venting the tank to below 3000 however. Two other minor things - I could not detect any difference in breathing ease when I had the adjustment knob turned all the way up or all the way down. Is this more noticeable at depth perhaps? Also, It took a small but noticeable amount of effort to breathe. It wasn't much - not a problem - and I don't remember if it was different from the regulator I used several months ago when I was breathing out of the rental for my OW certification. Is there always a bit of noticeable effort to open up the valve (I think this is called "cracking pressure", right?), at least when not underwater?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I'd suggest that you take the reg to your LDS, but from the sound of it (you set it up yourself), I'm betting that you bought online.

The problems could, in fact, be relatively simple. However, you shouldn't service the reg yourself unless you are properly trained and have the right equipment. After all, this is the device that keeps you breathing.

At a minimum, it sounds like the intermediate pressure and/or your second stages are out of adjustment. This is the type of thing handled by an LDS during setup. I would suggest that you contact the seller and make arrangements for it to be adjusted properly. Alternatively, bite the bullet and have an LDS take a look. Plan to pay them for their time.

I have not noticed any difference in surface breathing effort when adjusting the second stage. It is more noticeable at depth.

 

[ckharlan66]

The "Kazoo" sound is normal. Alot of regs "quack" on the surface but don't once they are submerged.

I agree that it sounds like your Intermediate Pressure is too high. You need to get a tech to check it with a IP guage and either adjust it or further troubleshoot.

Good luck.

Chad

 

[dlwalke]

After I posted my question, I went back to fiddling with my regulators. The problem with the freeflow seems to have sponatnaously remitted. I have no idea why, but over the last couple of hours I've been fiddling with it and it just completely isn't doing it anymore. Perhaps it was a function of tank pressure, but it was still doing it when I stopped and it wasn't when I started back up and the tank pressure must have been comparable at those two points so I'm perplexed. The only other thing that changed was that the 1st stage had a chance to warm up a bit (I assume it cooled off when I was doing a massive purge so as to vent down to below 3000 - don't know if there could have been some interaction there. Anyhow, I'm glad its working now.

One final observation. When I inhale, I hear a bit of hissing noise coming from the 1st stage. I thought that maybe it was leaking just a bit from one of the ports (that's what it sounded like). But I stuck the top of the cylinder in a trashcan full of water and breathed through regulator and there were no bubbles...so maybe it is just some internal noise.

One last question. Is the intermediate pressure check something that is regulator specific - that is, would I have to find a place that services Scubapro equipment - or is it more of a general thing that most any LDS can do with a brand-independent instrument? Also, I may have given the wrong impression earlier. When I said "setup", all I meant was that I attached it to the cylinder. Leisurepro connected the hoses and stages and so on.

Thanks for the help
Dave

 

[jeffsterinsf]

You saved a bunch with LeisurePro, I assume. Might be well worth $20 to have the rig bench-tested at a reliable shop...

...and how did that AL80 get to 3500 psi again?

 

[Northeastwrecks]

There is more to setting up a regulator than hooking up the hoses. I'm not sure exactly what, because I'm not a certified tech, but I believe that it involves checking the IP pressure and a number of other parts. For example, my OMS deco regulator developed a light free flow. I adjusted the valve in the second stage and took the nut driver down with me in case I needed to readjust at depth. I went directly from the dive to the LDS, where I had the reg serviced to make sure that I hadn't misadjusted it or masked a more serious problem. Turns out I was right, but it could have been something else.

My experience is that the IP pressure is regulator specific. Even if it is not, most shops I know won't touch a regulator that they are not certified to repair. Its a liability issue.

 

[chrispete]

I wouldn't be happy with just a "spontaneous remission" of the symptoms. I ignored a slight leak in my primary a while back after it came and went, only to have the o-ring (that was leaking) fail during a dive, letting large amounts of water in with each breath. There is an obvious problem with your life support equipment, get it checked out - the $20 you'll save by ignoring it may come back to bite you at 50 feet under one day.

 

[redacted]

The free flow is the classic symptom of the 1st stage HP seat not sealing correctly. These things shouldn't heal themselves if there truely were a defect, so it may have been a little break-in problem. Any shop should be able to check the IP. With a new 1st, that IP should lock up solid around 135psi. From what you described, yours was probably stopping somewhere in spec 125 to 145) and then slowly creaping untill the 2nd stages were forced to relieve the pressure. That is just what should happen as IP heads past the 150 to 160 range. A failing or older HP seat will often climb quickly to whatever setting and then slowly creap another 5 to 10 psi before it locks up solid. If your is not locking up solid, I suggest you talk to the folks you bought it from about a replacement. If it is locking up solid now, I would dive it cautiously and moniter that IP between dives. Homemade IP guage will cost you about $25.00.

The honking by your 380 is not uncommon for that classic downstream design. My 190 does the same thing sometimes.

 

[seabass]

I highly recommend getting it serviced. expect to pay 20-50, which isn't a big deal. You saved that much by not having to pay sales tax. I found out which dive shops I didn't like when they got nasty about servicing a reg I bought online.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I believe awap is correct about the problem it sounds like a leaky HP seat. The seats go bad just sitting they don't need to be used. Wether or not the leak comes and goes can depend on the exact condition of the seat. There could even be debries in the first stage. The IP is reg specific, not the method of testing but the exact value. When a reg is sold the IP should be checked and adjusted if needed. Once the IP is set the second stage should be checked and adjusted also.