regulator problem ???

[ashber]

Hi all, im relatively in-experienced as I started diving last August.
while doing my open water and then continuing with AOW I used club gear however soon after I bought my own gear comprising of Scubapro R395 2nd stage and mk17 1st stage with a 295 octopus.
ive dived all threw the winter including 2 degree water without issue !

while on a dive a few weeks ago at Stoney cove with my regular buddy we descended to around 20 mtrs and I had what I can only describe as a minor panic attack which I beleave was brought on by the fact I had a bit of trouble equalizing and then became aware I was breathing very hard.

additionally I do go threw gas quite rapidly almost twice as fast as my far more experienced buddy although everyone I have spoken to states that this is normal and will level out in time.

however while diving at stoney last week the moment I dropped below 15mtrs I became aware that I was having to pull hard on my regulator so much so that I ended up concentrating more on my breathing than enjoying the dive.

now ive had time to think about the events Ive started to wonder if its more a mechanical issue than a psychological one.

is it possible that my new regulator is set harder to breath than either a)it should be or b) more than I am comfitable with ?

 

[c5diver]

did you try your octo to see if it also breaths hard? if both breath hard you can point at the first stage if the octo is fine then the r395 is the issue.

 

[Couv]

Hi Ashber,

Yes, it's quite possible that your regulator is the problem. See http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/346813-regulator-inspection-checklist-rev-7-a.html especially item 10 re cracking pressure.

However, you must also rule out any other issues that could be the cause. Are you absolutely sure you had the tank valve all the way open? Was your exposure suit fitting correctly? How about the tank/bc/backplate harness; was it constricting your breathing? I'm sure other here will have a few other things to check in mind.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hi all, im relatively in-experienced as I started diving last August.
while doing my open water and then continuing with AOW I used club gear however soon after I bought my own gear comprising of Scubapro R395 2nd stage and mk17 1st stage with a 295 octopus.
ive dived all threw the winter including 2 degree water without issue !

while on a dive a few weeks ago at Stoney cove with my regular buddy we descended to around 20 mtrs and I had what I can only describe as a minor panic attack which I beleave was brought on by the fact I had a bit of trouble equalizing and then became aware I was breathing very hard.

additionally I do go threw gas quite rapidly almost twice as fast as my far more experienced buddy although everyone I have spoken to states that this is normal and will level out in time.

however while diving at stoney last week the moment I dropped below 15mtrs I became aware that I was having to pull hard on my regulator so much so that I ended up concentrating more on my breathing than enjoying the dive.

now ive had time to think about the events Ive started to wonder if its more a mechanical issue than a psychological one.

is it possible that my new regulator is set harder to breath than either a)it should be or b) more than I am comfitable with ?

You've gotten some good advice already, and you should make sure that your regulator is functioning properly; but as Couv already mentioned, there is a possibility the regulator may not have been the culprit.

The symptoms I highlighted in your post above are "classic" for a tank valve that was opened partially. At the surface the regulator will supply enough air, but as you pass 15 meters the ambient pressure is 2X what it was at the surface, and an almost-closed valve will be unable to supply enough air to fully meet the increased demand.

How does a tank valve only get partially opened? By forgetting (or being unaware) that it was already opened, and then closing it and then opening 1/4 turn.... many divers are taught to "open all the way, then back off 1/4 turn" to prevent the valve sticking open. I feel this is a mistake, and really only applied to OLD valves many years ago. The valve should be fully open, or fully closed.

Good luck sorting out the problem, it is probably something easily fixed.

Best wishes

 

[Zung]

I've a feeling it's more psychological than mechanical; it happened to me a few times when I started diving many moons ago. It'll go away after the 50th dive or so.

If you really want to be sure and if you can cope with a bit of technology, rig yourself a manometer with a ruler, 3 feet of clear 1/4 inch plastic tubing and a couple of cable ties, and measure the cracking pressure. Anything between 1 and 1.5 inch is OK. Remember to double the reading. That'll give you a baseline.

 

[ajduplessis]

Panic and breathing issues nearly always go hand in hand. I would however also go through the normal checks to make sure it is working as it should. It could also be that the cylinder was only partially open.

 

[ashber]

Thankyou everyone for your thoughts and advise!

there's definitely some food for thought!

regarding the tank valve being open, im a engineer by trade and currently a hydraulics engineer, not that that would make me infallible but I am a stickler for full open and 1 quarter turn back, ive never failed on that issue.

very interested in the cracking pressure! need to find out more about this.

unfortunately my next dive is this friday in the sea off brighton on a wreck, however ive arranged to borrow a reg-set from my club and my instructor is going to take my set on a dive with him to try.

while on the last dive I did a share air practice with my buddy while on our sfaety stop and found that his ATX octo was so free breathing the difference was astounding and that was only at 5 mtrs.

thanks for you thoughts.

 

[300bar]

For the cracking pressure, just attach the reg to a tank, open the valve and dip the 2nd stage in a tub of water(mouthpiece up). It should start to freeflow when submerged about 2.5cm.(or less)

As for your problem, I tend to think it's a mental thing. You mentioned a slight panic.
This (in most cases) results in hyperventilating. And that will give you the feeling the reg is not working propperly.


Hope it helps.

 

[Zung]

Or maybe not, if you've done a comparative test with the Apeks.

The Apeks, being a more advanced "balanced poppet" design, should breathe "noticeably" better, but not "astoundingly" better. Try to tune your reg a bit: remove the hose (hard part, needs proper tooling or a rag), rotate the orifice inside 30° or so counter-clockwise, put the hose back (finger tight's OK), pressurize, repeat until it free flows, then back up a bit. Test with the manometer. I prefer it to the bucket of water because 1st it's less messy, then it gives a repeatable number for further reference.

 

[300bar]

Or maybe not, if you've done a comparative test with the Apeks.

The Apeks, being a more advanced "balanced poppet" design, should breathe "noticeably" better, but not "astoundingly" better. Try to tune your reg a bit: remove the hose (hard part, needs proper tooling or a rag), rotate the orifice inside 30° or so counter-clockwise, put the hose back (finger tight's OK), pressurize, repeat until it free flows, then back up a bit. Test with the manometer. I prefer it to the bucket of water because 1st it's less messy, then it gives a repeatable number for further reference.

And that is the way NOT to do it, this is the best way to damage your LP seat.
If you go that way, push the purge button before you start adjusting in this manner.