Hose length for Rec only diver

[cib]

Hi all,

Time to open tonight's debate:

I know this has been covered many times on various threads but I would like a little more opinion on the shorter 40" hose routed under your arm for the second stage.

I am still inexperienced (40 dives) AOW, I have just moved to BP/W with a great kit from DSS but would like to streamline my hoses a little. I envisage only rec diving for a number of years, all over the world (most of my diving is done on holiday/liveaboards) and although I like the idea of the HOG style of 5' or 7' hoses, they sound a little too cumbersome for travel, on a small dive boat etc before even considering the extra weight for travel.
My LDS does not stock long hoses (in fact, I'd have to travel abroad to see them) but has Miflex 40" and the swivel adaptors that I have seen recommended for recreational diving.
I do not envisage having a canister light or pocket on my harness (single piece webbing) to wrap a long hose around. However, I have heard that a 40", as it is not secured behind your head, can hang out in front when diving and so negating the entire point of the longer hose under your arm.

I'm a slim person 5'9", 160lbs with a single DSS rig.

I am sold on the idea of a shorter 22" hose for the Octo on a bungie and the SPG clipped off on the left waist (what length hose is that usually?? Mine seems too long).

I would appreciate feedback for what you guys think my best option might be or if there are considerations I may not have mentioned?

Thanks

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you are buying into the whole philosophy of the "Hogarthian" rig, where you intend to donate the reg with the longer hose that is the one you primarily breathe with, i.e., your "primary" reg, then just be patient and order the long hose. I don't think the "long" hose makes that big a difference for travel. If a few feet of hose is that critical to you meeting travel requirements, then perhaps you should rethink the whole idea of the Hog rig.

I am your size exactly, a recreational diver with a DSS rig just like yours, and I found that a 5-foot hose routed under my arm was uncomfortably short. I possibly could have rectified this with a swivel or elbow, but I simply switched to the 7-foot hose and routed it in the more or less conventional way. It does not feel especially long once you get accustomed to it. In fact, once you practice donating the primary, a light bulb will come on in your head and you will appreciate the whole beauty of the "long" hose concept. As you have read in other threads, the excess or "loop" of your long hose on your right side can be dealt with in several ways by the recreational diver without a can light. The simplest of these is tucking it into your waist webbing. Another is to attach a pocket in the position where the can light would be, and tuck the loop under the pocket. The latter is what I do. It works great.

 

[Colliam7]

I like the idea of the HOG style of 5' or 7' hoses, they sound a little too cumbersome for travel, on a small dive boat etc before even considering the extra weight for travel. . . . My LDS does not stock long hoses (in fact, I'd have to travel abroad to see them) but has Miflex 40" and the swivel adaptors that I have seen recommended for recreational diving. . . . However, I have heard that a 40", as it is not secured behind your head, can hang out in front when diving and so negating the entire point of the longer hose under your arm. . . . I am sold on the idea of a shorter 22" hose for the Octo on a bungie and the SPG clipped off on the left waist (what length hose is that usually?? Mine seems too long).

Two overall comments:

1. I regularly travel with an 84" hose for recreational diving, and find no problem whatsoever with the size, in terms of packing. Any extra travel weight associated with a 60" or even an 84" hose, compared to a 40" hose, is truly trivial (especially if it is a Miflex). But, I understand your issue is as much availability of a 60" or an 84" hose, as it is preference.

2. If I understand your post / question correctly, there is nothing at all wrong with what you are proposing to do. In fact, it is used by more than a few training programs (primarily university-based) in the US, to accommodate what are considered to be 'common' hose lengths used in recreational diving. What you are proposing is to use an even shorter (22") hose for for bungeed alternate, and use a 40" hose (which is a very common length for what is often referred to as the Alternate Air Source / Alternate Second Stage), for your primary, which would also be the second stage you would donate in the event of an emergency / OOA situation.

The primary drawback to using the longer, 40", alternate second stage hose for your primary is that it bows out quite a bit, if routed over the shoulder from the first stage, as you ordinarily do with your primary. If routed under the arm, it doesn't bow out, and is nicely streamlined, but the routing imposes a bit of an awkward angle on the second stage it pulls the right side of the second stage down so it doesn't fit in your mouth comfortably. Therefore, people have taken to using an omni-swivel (a 360 degree swivel), or a fixed angle elbow / adaptor - either a 90 degree or a 70 degree in most cases.

I use an omni-swivel for a number of reasons - while a 70 degree elbow allows me to adjust the position of the hose so that the mouthpiece is comfortable for me, if I have to donate it, the 70 degree elbow creates a slightly awkward angle for the recipient. That is not a huge problem - in an OOA situation, having access to an air supply is more important than any awkward mouthpiece angle. But, the 360 degree swivel generally mitigates that.

I know the 40" works well with the rubber hoses. I have limited experience with the 40" Miflex hoses, but those shouldn't bow out either, when routed under the arm.

One of the comments you may see, about 360 degree swivels, is that they may fail, catastrophically, if the screw holding the two haves together comes out. That is true, that SOME can. The reports are essentially exclusively associated with cheaper units, but NOT associated with the specific Omni brand of swivel, at least not in the past 15 years or more since they were redesigned. So, be sure of the brand of swivel that you get. You can tell if it is an Omni brand - the name will be stamped on the swivel (and it will probably be a bit more expensive - ~$90, or more). Accept no substitutes. Other than that caveat, your plan makes good sense.

As for the HP hose, try a 26" HP hose. The most common length used for recreational diving is 32" which is way too long for clipping to a left hip D-ring.

Addendum: although Miflex hoses are a bit 'floaty' - actually, they are just 'less stiff' - you shouldn't have an issue with a hose as short as 40", particularly when routed under the arm. Even when in good horizontal trim, with my hands in front of me, my elbows are slightly bent, and a 40" hose should not try to rid up over the right elbow.

 

[cib]

Thank you for the rapid responses.
Lorenzoid - although I like the idea and philosophy of the Hogarthian style, I prefer personal practicality and would prefer a more personalised setup if adjustments to the default Hog style may dictate I do so. I am interested that the 5' is too short for you. I really like the idea of the long hose for OOA situations but being a selfish ***, there are a couple of comments in your post that are what sit slightly off with me: "It does not feel especially long once you get accustomed to it." and "the excess or "loop" of your long hose on your right side can be dealt with in several ways". I'd rather get something I can feel comfortable with from the first to my last dive. Attaching pockets/knives to secure a hose when my idea of a BP/W was to simplify my rig seems a step backwards. Without these points, I would have already mail ordered a lovely 7' hose !

Colliam7 - That was my idea, a 40" with an Omniswivel. I have no doubt my LDS will not let me choose the cheap options ;-)
When in a streamlined position, with arms ahead, do you think the 40", being unsecured, may float around a little? I unfortunately don't have the opportunity to use the kit before purchase - my LDS doesn't offer a 'try before you buy'.

 

[Akimbo]

The 7' hose promoted by the tech community never made sense to me. It is just the right length for the diver following the other through a submarine hatch to get smacked in the face with every frog or flutter kick.

For recreational divers, I don't like the idea of someone hanging on my hose being out of reach and doing god knows what -- probably involving full panic mode. I want them with a death grip on my harness and looking me in the eye... and no strain on my regulator hose.

Longer than that, at least install a strain relief so the hose fitting isn't snapped off your first stage!

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/484125-help-set-up-bp-w-long-hose.html#post7140781

 

[halocline]

Definitely try the 5 ft hose routed across the chest and over the shoulder, a modified hogarthian routing. It's perfect for recreational diving, actually more streamlined while diving than about anything else. The 7ft length is to allow for single file air sharing in restricted passages, that's why cave divers use them. There's no reason at all for the 7ft hose in OW recreational diving. Most people that use them do so because they already have them for their technical diving set up.

I wouldn't bother with a 5ft miflex, those hoses are good in the shorter lengths but longer hoses have more flexibility anyway.

You can get a very inexpensive hose coupler and link together two standard size hoses to try out the long house routing before you invest in a set of hoses. You might find that the perfect size is a few inches longer than 5 ft, then you can order a custom hose if you really want that length. Hopefully some companies will start offering more standard length options, maybe 5'6".

 

[GDI]

Hey CiB How is it going? OK what I am going to add is coming from me as a Tech Diver, a cave instructor no less. I use both. The long hose was developed for the purpose of sharing air in a OOA situation in overhead environments where two divers may not be able to exit/end the dive in any other formation than a single file. It is not required in a blue water diving environment. Long or Short both hose lengths have proven to be successful and have a safe record over the years, Both require practice in their use

You are correct in thinking that you want to be comfortable in the dive, This is very important. A diver who is not comfortable or well practiced is at risk when the situation arises. You can become comfortable in whatever equipment configuration you use provided you train in its use. IF you do not plan to do overhead dives then you do not need a long hose, That is the long and short of it (sorry couldn't resist)

Lets try to look at the advantages of both long and short hose but first Consider this do you even need a 40 inch hose? A 32 Inch could work just as fine, it is about getting use to the equipment you prefer to use in the environment. KEEPING THINGS CONSISTENT GOES A LONG WAY (sorry for the pun)

Long Hose Advantages/Disadvantages/ Neutral: Adv is that the OOA diver is not right on top of you while you are surfacing allowing you both to kick free of the other without competing leg movement. Disadv is that if not stowed correctly the long hose may become unruly and in itself a problem. Neu: The length of either a long or short hose is not standardized 5 ft , 7ft , 40 inch or 32 inch. People are different and one size does not fit all.

Divers who use the long hose breath off the long hose leaving their short hose (usually) bungied around their neck, easy to locate and readily available if required. BTW you can still do the bungie thing even if you are using a shorter primary hose like a 40 or 32 inch.

Some posters have mentioned various ways of stowing the long hose. I personally bring it off the first stage under my right arm behind my shoulder blade, across my chest, under my left arm, up behind my shoulder blade behind my neck and around from the right into my mouth. nice and tight, easy to deploy (well practiced) and out of the way. Do I dive this way all the time NOPE Not in single tanks when doing pool work or just making a simple open water dive, I do always have the alternate bungied.

My basic set up remains the same so no muscle memory is required should I need to provide a OOA diver. My BCD and all other elements of Air Control are always in the same departmentalized area, drysuit wetsuit, doubles or single it doesn't matter.

Short Hose Advantages/Disadvantages/ Neutral: Adv: If the length is correct to the person the hose isn't looping way out to the side and doesn't require special routing for comfortable use it come off the first stage direct to the divers mouth or secure point ( the triangle of mouth to rib cage) Disadv: The length is often found to be cumbersome in a actual OOA situation impeding two divers ability to safely ascend if not done so under control with patient application. Neu: It is the standard basic configuration most commonly used by divers.

In Short (dam those puns keep coming) You decide which hose is best suited to your type of diving and environment. Just practice its use to make it a "first natured response" in its application not for "IF" something will happen but "WHEN" that something happens.

 

[fisheater]

I only dive "rec," but I dive with the 7' hose. The hose routes cleanly and easily, even when I don't use a can light.

I also like the fact that I can share air and dive single-file, as I may have to do in kelp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalko

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I use a seven foot hose and find it perfect for all the diving I do. I've only had to share air twice. Each time we swam side by side to our exit. If an OOA diver was panicking I could still hold them close to me. The longer hose allows us to separate and swim more comfortably once they calm down. It rolls up easier than a 40 inch hose in a suitcase without much added weight.

 

[eelnoraa]

I would say just forget about 40" and 5ft, go directly to 7ft and call it done. You can order 7ft rubber hose from DGX or DRIS, probably cheaper than 40" MiFlex even after shipping. I am 5'6". I have tried both 5ft and 7ft. I found 7ft is a lot easier to handle by just tugging the extra under waist strap. With 5ft, it is too short to tug in waist strap. When routing under right arm across chest to left side, the hose can and will float away from your body (because nothing is keeping it there).

And I don't think 7ft hose is an issue for travel at all as I have travel with mine reg to multiple places in Asia.