the great 109 to 156 (using the new S-wing) and "lever" issues threads (continued)

[rhwestfall]

Okay, made the switch out, and it appears to be happy, but I still wonder....

Anyone have magnahelic numbers for what you should expect? Trying to decide if this worked or not. No freeflow issues in tuning it. It appears to "sip" nicely on dry land, and a pool will be next, but I would like to know where it should dial in to if I put in on a magnahelic....

as always,

Thanks

 

[Zung]

All of mines (109/156/G250) are very consistent at 22mm/.9inch, with a variance of +/-2mm/.1inch. No special tricks required, just the standard tuning, freeflow stop + 1 hour. The only hard part is reading the manometer: the water coloumn moves about a bit, so the precision is also about 2mm/.1inch.

At this state of tune, the 109/156's tend to freeflow a bit in a face down position, the G250's don't. Nothing catastrophic.

 

[rhwestfall]

If I'm tuned right on the edge of FF, and get a high(er) mag number, is that then indicative of needing to change out the lever, or is there something else?

 

[Zung]

How much higher? If it's within 10% or so, I wouldn't worry about it. Anything below 1" is barely usable in reality because of the case geometry. It only starts getting annoying when it's up to about 1.4": that's where I tune our octo's.

Or maybe you mag is off; I'd check it against a self-calibrating manometer.

 

[redacted]

With the 109/156, you might as well tune all right to the edge or even a little beyond and then control them with the user adjustment. Detune the octo with the user adjustment rather than the orifice and it will breath as well as a primary when you choose to use it. If you are having trouble getting the cracking pressure down around 1 inch, take a hard look at the knife edge on the orifice.

 

[rhwestfall]

Okay, just tried a few:

G250V - brand new, tuned by me it is 1.1" - 1.2"
109 ADJ. serviced and tuned by LDS is 1.7" (do they have it right?)

the 156 in question is 1.8" - 2.0".... similar to the 109ADJ

do I try to tweak the orifice more?

---------- Post added April 28th, 2012 at 08:55 AM ----------

awap - I was typing as you posted...

 

[redacted]

109 ADJ. serviced and tuned by LDS is 1.7" (do they have it right?)

Take that 109 to your barber next time for service. Maybe he won't clip you as badly as your LDS did.

 

[rhwestfall]

Take that 109 to your barber next time for service. Maybe he won't clip you as badly as your LDS did.

that's exactly why I am now trying to do this myself....

---------- Post added April 28th, 2012 at 09:20 AM ----------

I just checked the orifice position on the 109ADJ, and it is right on the edge of FF....

---------- Post added April 28th, 2012 at 09:21 AM ----------

so back to the root of things:

new orifice? new lever? If lever, the one for the G250V?

 

[Zung]

My bet is on the orifices, 2 to 1.
If they're metal, I'd check the edge with a loupe: I have some with the tiniest of nicks that work OK, and you can probably fix the others with some careful sanding. It'd help if you have a known good spare orifice to swap with.

Edit
If your barber delivers a reg that cracks at 2", he's probably too stupid to check the orifice.

 

[Couv]

Some possibilities in no particular order, just written as I thought of them, I'm sure the Usual Suspects will have other ideas.

*Soft seat engraved and the orifice is adjusted in further to compensate-replace soft seat.
*Orifice has less than perfect edge and must be adjusted in further to compensate-Do the Matt Magic and probably need to replace seat too.
*Spring too stiff-replace spring or shave it (old school method)
*Lever height wrong causing the diaphragm to push down on the poppet. This requires the orifice to be adjusted in, but also increases spring tension-replace lever or bend the feet.
*Crud in the poppet barrel or on the poppet or an imperfection on the poppet causing it to drag.-Clean/abrade.
*Diaphragm disk has lever engravings on it.- turn it 90 degrees or buff them out.

Start with the easiest to check and finish with the most radical. I.e. don't shave the spring or bend the lever feet until you've convicted them by using another of same part or moved them into another regulator and got the same results.