Additional DM liability while on Vacation??

[Scuba Geoff]

I am considering becoming a Divemaster. I know by doing so I will be held to a higher standard while working as a divemaster. However, will I be held to a higher standard while vacationing and not "on the job"? Of course I will respond as trained if I see an incident occuring while on vacation, but will I have to keep a vigilent eye on those I am not buddying with?

I have been told that when I go on vacation just to show my AOW or Rescue C-card instead of my DM C-card. Will that reduce my liability?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[Mantaman]

Geoff - I think some people use their AOW card rather than DM card but I really don't worry about it. If you are with an operator all the divers have to sign a waiver and if something happens, the families may go after the operator but other divers do not necessarily know who is a DM and who is not. If you are organizing a trip, I would suggest you get a waiver for the participants to sign as well.

When I was a new DM, I heard people talking about the added liability but I think that is when there is not a certified operator about. If you are going with a bunch of friends to a local dive site, there may be added liability.

I was off the job on vacation a couple weeks ago in the Caribbean and saw things going on that made my hair curl but did not think it was my responsibility to tell an operator how to run his business and the diving that was going on.

One woman went into gage mode on her comp from busting safety stops after going into DECO at least twice. She used other computers when hers locked up. Later in the she came up on a second dive away from the boat and was unable to make a safety stop at all.

Another couple (from a cruise ship) were diving without computers and we dove a deep wreck followed by a deep reef dive and I am sure both went into DECO because they were down deeper and longer than me on both dives and I went into DECO and had to do a longer stop to clear. When we were back on board, I causally mentioned that I thought they both went into DECO on the dive and the male said, "What's that?" They did not even know what decopmpression diving is. I deceided there that I was not going to say anything to anyone else about what I was seeing.
That said, not everyone follows all the safety standards and the best you can do is make sure you know your limits and dive safe. Interferring with the operator's livelihood and reputation is not a good but as a trained dive professional, we will all encounter less that perfect diving operations.

How has other professionals handled similar situations?

[flots am]

I have been told that when I go on vacation just to show my AOW or Rescue C-card instead of my DM C-card. Will that reduce my liability?

In any country with a functioning legal system it will take a lawyer's office about an hour to figure out what certifications everybody on the boat had, regardless of wheter you showed them your Dive God card or your Jr. OW card. In countries without a functioning legal system, it's a coin toss what will happen, regardless of what card you have or show.

Although this comes up quite often, I don't recall ever hearing about a vacationing professional being sued for anything, just for being on the same dive boat. It's possible it's happened, but I've never heard it.

but will I have to keep a vigilent eye on those I am not buddying with?

It's really hard to turn off. One of the reasons I try to arrange my own dives on vacation is because watching the once-every-few-years SCUBA tourists, causes a lot of anxiety.

Regardless of what you're required to do, you'll probably find yourself watching people so you can head off little problems before they become big problems, just to lower your stress.

flots.

[drbill]

I am not a dive professional, in part due to the additional potential liability. However, my understanding (at least for here in the US) based on recent court decisions is that a dive professional has no liability for another diver who was not under their direct supervision. If you are diving on a boat and another diver on board has an incident, you should have no liability unless they were under your direct supervision. I'm not sure if that includes being their dive buddy. Of course the legal situation may be quite different in other countries.

[akdeepdiver]

I use a lower level card, but not for liability. I have had multiple occasions when I used my card, the boat captain decided to pair me up with partner that was of a lesser ability so I could keep a eye on them, when they did not have enough staff on the boat. I was even told that to my face. Personally, if im not being paid to dive as a DM, I refuse to baby sit because the dive shop didnt have enough people show up at work that day.

[boulderjohn]

As has been said in the many, many threads on this topic over the years, there is no likelihood that a person with professional certification will have any liability for someone with whom he or she has a professional working relationship.

I use a lower level card, but not for liability. I have had multiple occasions when I used my card, the boat captain decided to pair me up with partner that was of a lesser ability so I could keep a eye on them, when they did not have enough staff on the boat. I was even told that to my face. Personally, if im not being paid to dive as a DM, I refuse to baby sit because the dive shop didnt have enough people show up at work that day.

I have have had a totally different experience. I always show a professional card, and the result has always been positive. I get put with the best dive groups when there is an option. I am always treated very well and allowed to do things that others aren't allowed to do. I have great collegial chats with the operators. I have NEVER been asked to do what you described with another diver, and I am sure it is because they don't want me to be unhappy. They want me to recommend them to my students, and they want me to come back to them myself.

There was one time I was accidentally paired with a beginning diver. The boat was supposed to have nothing but pros on it, but someone in the office screwed up and put a beginner on board. I was the only pro who was not already paired, so he became my buddy. The operator was embarrassed and gave me my money back without my asking.

The only other time something like that happened came at the end of a week of diving. I was waiting at the shop for the next dive and chatting with the workers there, whom I had come to know pretty well. While we were talking a new problem arose. The dive I was waiting for was quite popular, and too many people signed up for it. For insurance purposes, they needed another professional in the water. I volunteered. I was given a couple of really minor responsibilities which did not interfere with my enjoyment of the dive, and I got the dive for free. I was mire than happy with that.

[jar546]

Although you can be sued for any reason, with or without merit, it is my understanding that:

Unless you are directly supervising a diver and acting in your official capacity, there is no liability unless there is an issue/accident, you identify yourself then perform outside your scope of training or are negligent because of your lack of action, there may be some liability. If you are a customer diver on vacation it does not matter what level of training you are unless you are there in an official capacity.

[coldwatercanada]

as is my understanding you are required to help up to the point of it becomeing dangerouse to you, Such as an off duty police officer or firefighter

[coldwatercanada]

i also guess the way i look at it is i become an instructor to teach, and help other dives so morally i wouldnt be able to stand by and let someone get hurt or die. . .

[boulderjohn]

as is my understanding you are required to help up to the point of it becomeing dangerouse to you, Such as an off duty police officer or firefighter

I don't even think that is true. I don't believe that there is a requirement to help, meaning that if you are just on vacation and don't act on something you happen to see. If you are in a professional relationship, though, you are expected to perform the duties expected of you in that capacity.