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Scuba TeensA place for parents and youth leaders to discuss certification, (family) travel and other issues involved in introducing youths to this wonderful sport.
Hello everyone,
How many of you have SCUBA Diving as a regular part of your Troop or Crew yearly outing program? If you do;
1) What problems do you run in to on a regular basis? How do you resolve them?
2) What changes to the Guidelines to Safe Scouting regarding SCUBA Diving would you recommend, if any?
3) How many dive trips does your group take a year and to what destinations?
4) Any suggestions on how to retain the interest of the youth in the program?
5) Would you like to see a District or Council managed program? If so, why? If not, why not?
5) Any other comments or questions you may have.
A little Bio:
I am currently involved with a Boy Scout Troop near Chicago, Illinois. We have been developing a SCUBA Program inside our Troop for the past three years. The program includes Introduction to SCUBA, Open Water Certification, Advanced Open Water Certification and I hope Rescue Diver Certification next year. We also sponsor two to three "Fun Dive" opportunities a year for our certified divers to go on to keep in practice. Most of these have been quarry or inland lake dives. How ever we are going on a Lake Michigan Charter this summer. We have also sent a group to Florida Sea Base for a week of diving.
We currently have three active certified adults and 6 active certified Scouts, five of whom will be AOW by summers end. We also have four youth who will be getting their OW Cert. in July which will bring our total to 10 youth. This number has been pretty stable over the last three years as we have been able to replace those boys who have "aged out" of the troop with new divers on a regular basis.
I would like some ideas as to how to make this program more widely available though out our District or even council. Also any input you may have regarding improvements to make this a more appealing program overall.
Certification level and agency. Last I looked, BSA scuba guidelines only recognize PADI and NAUI certifications, and require a divemaster to conduct diving activities. Although I'm a PADI instructor, I have a former Navy Seal and NASDS instructor who ran a dive shop in Detroit for a couple decades whom I can't use unless I cross him over. And getting other adults to drop the $500+ for materials and tuition for the DM course isn't the easiest thing, either. With PADI partnering with BSA on the scuba merit badge, I don't think it will get any easier to convince BSA to recognize other quality agencies.
Equipment. It's expensive, it costs to maintain, and scouts can be hard on it. 'Nuff said. V&B (PADI's tame insurance company) has policy restrictions that discourage instructors from letting students use the instructor's equipment for non-instructional activities, so the troops either have to buy the equipment or rent it for pleasure or experience trips unless the instructor carries general liability insurance.
Expansion to Cover the District
This is primarily an issue of resources (money) and personnel. You need to know who is willing to help with the program (instruction, travel, equipment rental, etc.), avoid overwhelming them with requests, and provide support. Get your program running smoothly and then expand it.
Diver Retention
It's the Three E's: education, equipment, and experience. Once you educate and equip them, you need to give them opportunities to dive or expand their knowledge in diving-related fields. Trips to the chamber, some guest speakers (not like you don't have some great divers in the Great Lakes area); now that I think about it, call Patrick Hammer over at Scuba Emporium (my Course Director). He may have some ideas for you.
__________________
And the moral of the story is ... beware of scuba divers wearing only one shoe.
-NWGratefulDiver
Instead of spending all this time trying to solve a non existing problem, why not work at being smarter divers, don't do stupid stuff at the lakes and the boats will have a much harder time hitting you. (AZTEK DIVER)
Hello everyone,
How many of you have SCUBA Diving as a regular part of your Troop or Crew yearly outing program? If you do;
1) What problems do you run in to on a regular basis? How do you resolve them?
2) What changes to the Guidelines to Safe Scouting regarding SCUBA Diving would you recommend, if any?
3) How many dive trips does your group take a year and to what destinations?
4) Any suggestions on how to retain the interest of the youth in the program?
5) Would you like to see a District or Council managed program? If so, why? If not, why not?
5) Any other comments or questions you may have.
Your council's Aquatics Committee would be a great resource for you. A couple of years ago BSA National suggested that all Councils should have aquatics committees. I've recruited a lot of dive shops as members of our aquatics committee. We have several Venture crews sponsored by local dive shops. From BSA's perspective, scuba is one part of the larger aquatics program.
I know of several leaders who achieved their Divemaster cert specifically to be able to lead scout trips.
The upcoming scuba merit badge should result in changes to BSA's scuba guidelines (e.g., relaxing the age limit).
There are other ways of keeping the youth's interest other than dive trips (local water-based service projects, guest programs, non-diving specialties).
You can't beat Florida Sea Base's 3 levels of dive programs for convenience: cert, scuba adventure, scuba liveaboard.
I can't see BSA changing their direction that local councils NOT run scuba programs (they basically have to contract with qualified providers).
Scuba BSA & Snorkeling BSA are GREAT programs!
Equipment-wise, diving is similar to mountain biking or skiing - some investment is required. Be aware of PADI's Dive to Adventure scholarship programs for crews.
Mike Meenehan
NCAC Aquatics Committee
BSA AI / PADI MSDT
To AzAtty. Great to read your reply! In response to your Frequently Encountered Problems:
The guide to safe Scouting recognizes PADI, NAUI and SSI by name. It also states that any certification agency may be used if they comply with RSTC guidelines and you gain Council approval.
Yes, equipment is expensive. I encourage the youth to purchase their basic kit (mask, fins, snorkel) when they complete their Open Water Cert. and they decide they want to continue with diving. We rent everything else. Buying any other equipment at this age is very expensive especially since many of them will grow out of it very quickly! The typical outing cost is in the $70-90.00 range per person. This includes equipment, air, lunch, fuel to and from the outing site and Dive Master fee. The scouts will typically get two to three dives in per outing.
We have established a working relationship with three dive operators who are very scout friendly. They have been very good about giving us discounted rates and Dive Master supervision. Because of this we are very loyal to them as far as using them for training, equipment purchases etc.
Please post any other thoughts or comments you may have.
Hello Mike,
Thanks for the response. You made several good points. I will definitely look into our Council's Aquatics committee, if we have one.
As far as Dive master. I have been thinking about doing that course eventually just to cut down on the costs of the outings and to give us a little more flexibility on where and when we go diving. However, the insurance costs may make that idea a non starter. I am sure the BSA requires a Dive Master accompany scouts so the BSA has an additional insurance shield in case of an accident. A Dive Master with out insurance probably doesn't qualify as a Dive Master as far as the BSA is concerned. Please correct me if I am wrong.
The ideas you gave for non-diving activities are great. Thanks!
Yes, Sea Base is awesome! The guys we sent had a very memorable time!
Hello Mike,
As far as Dive master. I have been thinking about doing that course eventually just to cut down on the costs of the outings and to give us a little more flexibility on where and when we go diving. However, the insurance costs may make that idea a non starter. I am sure the BSA requires a Dive Master accompany scouts so the BSA has an additional insurance shield in case of an accident. A Dive Master with out insurance probably doesn't qualify as a Dive Master as far as the BSA is concerned. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I believe you are wrong. PADI recommends, but does not require, that Divemasters carry liability insurance. PADI instructors are required to carry liability insurance to maintain their teaching status.
There have been previous discussions of divemasters and insurance on scubaboard.
Mike Meenehan
National Capital Area Council Aquatics Committee
PADI MSDT #191352
Before my Venture crew implemented Scuba as a regular activity I had about 70% attendance. When we have our monthly Scuba activity we get 100%+ attendance. We even get divers from local clubs going with us.
1) What problems do you run in to on a regular basis? The biggest issue I have after implementing Scuba into our group is getting the funds to cover gear rental until we have enough to purchase our own dive gear.
2) What changes to the Guidelines to Safe Scouting regarding SCUBA Diving would you recommend, if any?
The guide to safe scouting needs to be more clear on if Scout can spear fish underwater. It does mention spearfishing in the outdoor living section in the venture manual (I think), but it does not talk about underwater spearfishing while Scuba diving
3) How many dive trips does your group take a year and to what destinations?
We try and take a group dive every 4th Saturday a month. We typically dive lakes within a 4 hour drive radius. Our last dive/High Adventure was at Flaming Gorge.
4) Any suggestions on how to retain the interest of the youth in the program?
We have decided to stick with the Scuba/underwater theme for the last bit, and recently we worked on constructing an underwater ROV. This taught them soldering and other constructions skills that the Venture program doesn't really offer. We completed our ROV shortly before our Flaming Gorge trip. It is a small ROV, but has lights and a color camera complete with a 100' tether. We got the buoyancy on the ROV to neutral, but the tether needs a little more work. Spearfishing is something we have also added to maintain their interest.
5) Would you like to see a District or Council managed program? If so, why? If not, why not? I would love it see a council managed program. It would be great for the scout to interact with other crews underwater.
5) Any other comments or questions you may have.
If you are a scout leader I would suggest getting your EFR Instructor cert too. It makes getting the necessary requirements for badges/awards for your scouts much cheaper and easier.
Hello Clanggedin!
Thanks for the response to my original post. It sounds like you have a great program! I didn't know there was much diving in Utah. I like the ROV idea. Please send me info on that as far as where you purchased it, how much, problems encountered etc.
Thanks again,
KJackson60
Are they going to do a Scuba MB? I only saw a Scuba Award, which my 13 yr old Star Scout wasn't interested in because there was no where to wear it. He wasn't going to put in on his Swim trunks like they suggest.
SCUBA Program in Scouts
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