Question about cave diving

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. As you can see, I'm a new diver with few dives under my belt. I have heard horror stories about cave diving and have decided it is not for me. However, I know another diver who is only OW certified and has done some cave diving around the entrances and in caverns. I am concerned for him, but more so for who dives with him, one of my friends. She is brand new to diving. Just certified this summer. She went with him for her first dive after being certified to Morrison Springs. He led her into the cavern and she had an issue with integrated weights falling out of her rented BC. She had to abort the dive at this point. When I spoke to him about this later on, he showed a cavalier attude about the danger he put her in. I think it is very likely that he will continue to explore caverns and caves without certification.

After that long introduction, my question is this, what is the best way to impress upon someone the dangers of cave and cavern diving without proper training? I know he will balk at telling him that it is dangerous, so any advice will be greatly appriciated. Please include the cavern diving as I don't really know the different dangers between the two.

Thanks,

Ith

I think you need to show them that the dangers are real, and not over played.

Here's a page with accident data collection-
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Specifically, this incident would be of interest to your friend-
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Here's a rescue 911 episode that's good as well-
Pt1: YouTube - Rescue 911 - Episode 202 - "Scuba Cave" (Part 1 of 2)
Pt2: YouTube - Rescue 911 - Episode 202 - "Scuba Cave" (Part 2 of 2)

A recent discussion about an untrained diver going into a cave
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...vortex-missing-diver-incident-aug-2010-a.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/348860-accident-vortex-springs-8-20-10-a.html

Read this summary from International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery on fatalities
http://www.iucrr.org/fatalities.pdf

There used to be a sign at Morrison with the number of deaths that have occured there... I wish they'd reinstate that sucker.

There is a difference between diving in a cavern or cave and diving near a cavern or cave. Let's assume that your friends are diving in a cavern or cave. Let's also assume that the diver who is leading your friend into peril is a male - we usually are the ones to do stuff like that. Let's finally assume that the male daredevil will not be swayed by reason or logic. Why don't you try to insult his manhood? As him if he has taken a cavern course. He will probably say "No" and that he doesn't need one because what he is doing isn't that dangerous. Again, don't appeal to reason - suggest that he might be afraid of taking a cavern course because he might not have what it takes, and that his skills are not sufficient to be a certified cavern diver. Bet him a case of beer that he can't handle it.

Finally, your friend who is following the daredevil is responsible for his/her own safety. you might be able to reason with this follower-friend, or perhaps using the same approach as that suggested for the daredevil might work.

In the above discussion I suggested a Cavern cert instead of a Cave cert because in most cases: (1) you begin with a Cavern cert first; and (2) some agencies will allow you to do a Cavern cert with your regular OW gear + some modifications that don't cost too much. The requirement to buy Cave gear might cause your daredevil friend to refuse such training based upon cost.

Thanks for the quick replys guys.

I read through that entire Vortex thread yesterday and had some ideas as to what to say, but I almost don't want to point him to that thread because he might get the idea that because he learned a little in the thread he would know enough to actually go into a cave.

Mpetryk, I'm not sure I could pull off the challenge. He is the kind of guy who makes everything a joke and would easily do so.

Ith

Ith:

Thanks for the quick replys guys.

I read through that entire Vortex thread yesterday and had some ideas as to what to say, but I almost don't want to point him to that thread because he might get the idea that because he learned a little in the thread he would know enough to actually go into a cave.

Mpetryk, I'm not sure I could pull off the challenge. He is the kind of guy who makes everything a joke and would easily do so.

Ith

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Is he local to FL where one of us could take him diving, show him the different gear/skills, and possibly either discourage him or show him where to seek training?

He is. I'll be talking with him on Thursday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'm also going to talk to my friend and her brother about this again.

I'll be at Vortex Friday night and at Morrison on Sunday morning, tell him/them to meet me out there and I'll explain why its important to have some training and the right gear.



If you can't reach the guy... focus on the girl.

Rather one 'tard getting hit up by Darwin rather than him taking another along for the ride.

Ith:

He is. I'll be talking with him on Thursday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'm also going to talk to my friend and her brother about this again.

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Sounds good. Let us know if we can help. I live about 20 minutes from Ginnie.

SuPrBuGmAn:

focus on the girl.

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Already on it. asl?