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Thread: Distribution block question.....

 


  1. #111
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    Sir Silts-a-Lot
     

    PfcAJ's Avatar
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    I think the real problem with this system is where the failure emphasis lies.

    Regulator failures are far more common than running completely out of gas. With SM, systems like the RB80, and even backmounted/manifolded doubles, an out of gas situation should't be a surprise. There are multiple layers you've got to get through before you need to get onto a longhose.

    For instance, if an RB fails, you go to your backup reg/BOV. If a SM bottle fails, you switch to the other reg. In backmount, if you have a problem with your primary (stage, deco bottle, etc), you go to the backup reg. These are all primary responses above all else. Even if the longhose is clipped off (RB80, as an example, but other configurations are similar), you're buddy CAN get to it, you've just in close proximity for a second till you or your buddy unclips the reg.

    A system where you've got to dig around in a pocket, unplug and replug and open bottles for the MOST common failure mode (regulator failure) seems like a phobia response to being "out of gas", which is a pretty rare event at this level of diving. You'll at least see it coming. But even a fumble with that pluggable reg means you WILL end up on a longhose (at best), potentially for a long time. Worst case you truly run out of gas (which takes seconds, esp with small bottles like al80s, and its even worse when they're already depleted) or can't access your gas, and you drown.

  2. #112
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    karstdvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Carlisle View Post
    does not have to start with developing the wheel again. Its done already.
    Innovation has always been the mark of cave diving and cave divers,otherwise we wouldn't have power inflators,deep scooters etc. I am all for challanging the system and bringing out new things. Seeing the "new wheel" fail either takes us back to the drawing board for development, or thankful that the tried and true "old wheel" is just fine and doesn't need refinement.
    decompression likes this.

  3. #113
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    Kevin Carlisle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevrumbo View Post
    Z-system integrates perfectly with my team of SE Asia/Indo-Pacific Wreck Divers; we use scooters to help get down in current on the deep WWII wrecks in the South China Sea (as well as getting out of the way of the big container ships in the busy shipping lanes to Singapore) --another one of the reasons why I went with the Z-system SM is that you always breath the long hose primary in nominal situations. All I have to do when alternating tanks is turn one on and shut down the other --all easily done on-the-fly & on-the-trigger while scootering in open water at depth. i.e. --I don't have to swap/deploy/stow regulators if I went with a traditional/conventional independent SM set-up, which would be much harder to do on-the-fly and on trigger (with a Super Tanker bearing down on me !).

    So yeah, I've given it a lot of thought and understand the mechanics & contingencies of the distribution block connections --Z-system conveniently applies to my type of diving. . .
    Kev, we swap while on the trigger while scootering cave. That isn't complicated at all.
    Some see the cup as half empty. Some see it as half full. I see the cup as too big......George Carlin

  4. #114
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    SuPrBuGmAn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevrumbo View Post
    ...I don't have to swap/deploy/stow regulators if I went with a traditional/conventional independent SM set-up, which would be much harder to do on-the-fly and on trigger (with a Super Tanker bearing down on me !)...
    This comment right here proves that either you don't understand the most common SM configurations; or that you've been fed alot of bull**** when being sold on the Z-system.

    There is no deploying and stowing, you simply swap regulators. Easier and quicker than cranking valves on two seperate tanks even with one hand, on the fly, on the trigger.




    That being said, if you're position on ideal is staying on a longhose without it ever leaving your mouth, no matter what additional steps are required to keep your tanks balanced and no matter what additional steps and time are required to keep breathable gas available to you in an emergency, then so be it.

    IMO, thats the wrong reason, but whatever.
    The best springs in life are free.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    I think the real problem with this system is where the failure emphasis lies.

    Regulator failures are far more common than running completely out of gas. With SM, systems like the RB80, and even backmounted/manifolded doubles, an out of gas situation should't be a surprise. There are multiple layers you've got to get through before you need to get onto a longhose.

    For instance, if an RB fails, you go to your backup reg/BOV. If a SM bottle fails, you switch to the other reg. In backmount, if you have a problem with your primary (stage, deco bottle, etc), you go to the backup reg. These are all primary responses above all else. Even if the longhose is clipped off (RB80, as an example, but other configurations are similar), you're buddy CAN get to it, you've just in close proximity for a second till you or your buddy unclips the reg.

    A system where you've got to dig around in a pocket, unplug and replug and open bottles for the MOST common failure mode (regulator failure) seems like a phobia response to being "out of gas", which is a pretty rare event at this level of diving. You'll at least see it coming. But even a fumble with that pluggable reg means you WILL end up on a longhose (at best), potentially for a long time. Worst case you truly run out of gas (which takes seconds, esp with small bottles like al80s, and its even worse when they're already depleted) or can't access your gas, and you drown.
    For open water in a current on Z-system, I can always add another hosed redundant 2nd stage with an in-line shut-off on one or both tanks as another alternative to the pocket back-up QC6 regulator.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn View Post
    This comment right here proves that either you don't understand the most common SM configurations; or that you've been fed alot of bull**** when being sold on the Z-system.

    There is no deploying and stowing, you simply swap regulators. Easier and quicker than cranking valves on two seperate tanks even with one hand, on the fly, on the trigger.




    That being said, if you're position on ideal is staying on a longhose without it ever leaving your mouth, no matter what additional steps are required to keep your tanks balanced and no matter what additional steps and time are required to keep breathable gas available to you in an emergency, then so be it.

    IMO, thats the wrong reason, but whatever.
    And free-flow problems with conventional SM independent tanks on the now swapped-out un-used tank & regulator while scootering on-the-fly/on trigger, against current because you didn't shut it down??? (In open water --not a cave or a swimming pool-- in the busiest shipping lanes in the world with a Super Tanker bearing down on you. . .?)
    "One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 [2009] the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal." Capt. Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger III, US Airways Flight 1549 ("Miracle on the Hudson").

    "Chance favors the prepared mind" --Louis Pasteur

  6. #116
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    Sir Silts-a-Lot
     

    PfcAJ's Avatar
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    So 4 regs on 2 tanks? What happened to simple? And if you pick 3 regs on 2 tanks, better hope you pick the right one.

    Le sigh...

  7. #117
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    Kevin Carlisle's Avatar
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    A.J you better turn off your secondary next time you scooter so you dont freefliw and lose all your gas. Oh wait, you know how to keep that from happening without all that other stuff.
    PfcAJ likes this.
    Some see the cup as half empty. Some see it as half full. I see the cup as too big......George Carlin

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