No jacket BP/W Sidemount?

[FlyingSquid]

I'm convinced it's a good idea to start with a BP/W config and just skip the jacket altogether, especially, but not exclusively, if there is an intention of going into tech diving.

I wonder:

I-Any particular reason to start with single cylinders instead of doubles?
II-Any good reason to avoid going straight to sidemount, even if with only one cylinder (monkey diving)? Why or why not?

I understand that there are clear advantages for penetration diving, which is one reason why I would be interested.

Are there disadvantages to also use it as a basic setup in your garden-variety open water dives? The only drawback I could find is that it's more critical that you have better horizontal trim, which could be a problem for new divers – but frankly this sounds to me more like an educational feature, isn't it?

Also, where can I find a good review of how different SM setups (adapted BP/W, specialized, minimalist) stack against each other?

I'd particularly curious to hear from tech divers, of course.

You may want to also check a more general question I asked about adopting tech-flavored configs early on.

 

[MSargeant]

For sidemount, i find a razor-style 1 piece harness to be the "best" nothing there that shouldn't be there, yet everything you need. No faff

 

[flots am]

> I-Any particular reason to start with single cylinders instead of doubles?

It's more difficult to exceed the NDL with a single 80 than with two.

> II-Any good reason to avoid going straight to sidemount, even if with only one cylinder (monkey diving)? Why or why not?

No idea, except you'll probably have a hard time finding anybody who trains with them for an OW cert. If you buy your own equipment, you shouldn't have much trouble finding someone to certify you.

> The only drawback I could find is that it's more critical that you have better horizontal trim, which could be a problem for new divers – but frankly this sounds to me more like an educational feature, isn't it?

Good trim only requires knowing how to achieve it. The style of equipment is mostly irrelevant.

> Also, where can I find a good review of how different SM setups (adapted BP/W, specialized, minimalist) stack against each other?

Nowhere. You'll find a lot of flame wars, though.

flots.

 

[FlyingSquid]

Replying to my own post, let me complement it by saying that in the flame wars people argue that Sidemount divers tend to be the ones who have a "Bad Back" or need more air or want to look cool or that it is a great simplification for traveling tech/wreck divers. On the other hand, people argue that it doesn't appeal much to rec divers because of more gas planning, that it's more complicated in boats and rough seas, and that's a fad and debating about where you prefer your tanks is like debating how you prefer your toilet paper orientation.

Which is very instructive.

Still, the question is open: if you are about to buy most of your gear and therefore have choices, you don't have much diving experience but intends to progress soon, have a taste for getting into penetration diving in the near future, and don't have any particular diving location in mind (you expect it to be flexible, varied), then: is jumping straight to sidemount a potentially good idea or is it "better" to build up experience with backmounted BP/W and adapt from there, even if one cylinder (monkey diving)?

 

[TSandM]

I think everybody ought to dive single tank backmount for a while. There is a lot to diving to master, if you want to be good at it. Single tank backmount is the standard -- it fits on dive boats, and everybody understand it. It's a reasonably easy configuration to balance, as far as static weighting is concerned. A single tank limits depth and exposure, which is a good idea for new divers.

Single tank sidemount, or monkey diving, is a whole 'nother animal. It's not standardized in any fashion. You have to decide how or if you are going to have a regulator available for another diver. You have to learn to balance yourself with all your negative weight on one side. It only works well and comfortably with certain tanks (putting a single big steel on one side of your body is going to make for an uncomfortable dive).

Penetration diving doesn't require sidemount, and some penetration diving isn't even better or amenable to it. Sidemount is a technique that works extremely well for bedding plane in caves, where the distance from floor to ceiling is small, and the width of the passage is much larger. In any passage that is as tall as it is wide, backmounted doubles work just fine.

It's certainly not unreasonable to decide to go from single tank backmount to sidemount -- but I still think spending some time diving a pretty standard single tank setup is time well spent.

 

[ffdiver]

If you want to do single tank SM, stick with an AL 80. if you find you need more gas add the other one or then go to steels. For rec dives, single tank SM is nice and simple and I do most of my OW teaching in it.

 

[DevonDiver]

I-Any particular reason to start with single cylinders instead of doubles?

Manageable task loading. One cylinder, with one pressure gauge is typically sufficient to stress-load a novice diver in their early stages - especially when combined with the myriad of other skills and drills that need to be ingrained for baseline competence.

II-Any good reason to avoid going straight to sidemount, even if with only one cylinder (monkey diving)? Why or why not?

PADI do (recently) allow for OW courses to be conducted using sidemount BCD. At face-value, there's no big difference between using single-tank sidemount and a jacket BCD/single. Some drills and skills would differ, but the sidemount wouldn't be any more complex if that is all you did from the start.

That said, a novice diver who only knew how to dive sidemount might face difficulties when travelling to dive and/or renting dive equipment. Sidemount is rarely available to rent...and (sadly) there is still a lot of misconceptions about sidemount amongst the 'dive pro' community.

I'd say it is still best to learn on a single-tank backmount, and then transition to sidemount properly once you have competence and confidence in that configuration.

I understand that there are clear advantages for penetration diving, which is one reason why I would be interested.

People tend to infer that sidemount gives you more 'ability' to conduct penetrations. That is illogical. The divers' skills, experience, training and psychological fortitude are what determines their ability to achieve success (i.e. survive) when diving in overhead environments.

Given that recreational divers shouldn't be going through 'restrictions' (confined spaces too small for 2 divers to pass whilst sharing air), the idea that sidemount provides any tangible benefit for penetration dives has no basis. Such benefits are not accessible until a much higher level of diving training/experience is achieved - for example; technical wreck or full/advanced cave.

Are there disadvantages to also use it as a basic setup in your garden-variety open water dives?

On occasions, there may be issues arising from the logistical support offered by dive charters etc. This varies depending on regional diving practices.

The only drawback I could find is that it's more critical that you have better horizontal trim, which could be a problem for new divers

Sidemount tends to greatly improve intuitive trim. As an instructor, I get lots of positive feedback from students about how easy it is to trim in sidemount.

Also, where can I find a good review of how different SM setups (adapted BP/W, specialized, minimalist) stack against each other?

Reviews would be skewed by the particular needs of the reviewing diver. There's plenty of good options available, but (IMHO) none entirely cover all spectrums of use.

Many experienced sidemount divers will gravitate towards a preference for the minimalist systems. You'll see a lot of recommendations for the Razor, X-Deep Stealth and UTD Z. Effectiveness of these systems does require a high standard of instruction though - you need an instructor with extensive experience.

One issue that can arise from minimalist systems is the provision of redundant buoyancy. Regardless of a divers' opinions on the need for redundant buoyancy, many tech-level classes do insist upon it. In cold water drysuits cover that option, but if diving in warm water/tropics (i.e. wetsuits), you will probably want redundancy integral to the BCD. IMHO, none of the minimalist sidemount BCDs have created an optimal solution for this yet.

 

[FlyingSquid]

That was a great, detailed answer, Andy. Thank you!

 

[decompression]

Well said, Andy....ditto.

 

[beanojones]

One issue that can arise from minimalist systems is the provision of redundant buoyancy. Regardless of a divers' opinions on the need for redundant buoyancy, many tech-level classes do insist upon it. In cold water drysuits cover that option, but if diving in warm water/tropics (i.e. wetsuits), you will probably want redundancy integral to the BCD. IMHO, none of the minimalist sidemount BCDs have created an optimal solution for this yet.

Do any of them offer any solution?

(BTW, PADI is all over the place on whether dual bladders are required in the tech sidemount courses in the tropics.)